33 in MP - 3 bet the turn??

[pokerstudAA]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Cap here? I thought a call followed by a check/raise on the turn would work out nicely. Get a few extra BB from the field. Mp-2 could have AK or AA here very likely. Mabye A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif - KQ also possible. MP-2 will probably bet again on the turn after his flop 3-bet.


Turn: (11.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

I was planning on check raising but had to fire the 3-bet in here. No real problems doing it here. I see no real benefit to smooth call?

River: (21.20 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds.

Doubtful I am behind another set here. Easy river bet.

Final Pot: 23.20 BB

Comments?

[einbert]

Ugh, if he checks behind it is really going to suck.

I'm capping the flop with so many players in, and I'm betting the turn as well.

[CallMeIshmael]

I really like how you played this hand.


Though the checkraise from UTG does kind of weird me out, as there are no reasonable 2-pair combos AND MP2 might as well have announced to the table that he has TPTK+.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I really like how you played this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you think the noncap on the flop is worth it, even though three people are obviously willing to put another SB in? They may not be willing to put more bets in once they see the turn.

If MP2 checks the turn behind us it's going to suck so damn much. I just don't want to risk us. He'll raise a lot of the time anyway and we can three-bet. A flush draw isn't going anywhere throughout all of this.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, if he checks behind it is really going to suck.


[/ QUOTE ]

Before I replied, I was thinking this.

The only question is: what is he checking behind?

Basically only AdQd/AdJd/AdTd.

I just thought that A LOT of his range bets again.

[Dennis187]

I really liked the way you played this hand. I am thinking for sure that MP2 had AK, that is pretty obvious I do agree.

I dont see any real mistakes, good job all around.

Kinda want to know the results of the hand tho, lol!

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I am thinking for sure that MP2 had AK, that is pretty obvious I do agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure? I play A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif-A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif that way PF and on the flop for sure. Also KQ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and KJ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. And I'm checking a lot of those behind on the turn.

I agree that it's likely, I'm just not sure it's worth the risk. Especially considering that he'll often raise you as a worse than 4-1 dog and you can put the third bet in.

[Pokey]

Nice hand, though I did have some disagreements with you.

Preflop call was good -- two were already in the pot, so odds were in your favor. MP2 is a bastard for raising your speculative-limp hand, but it happens.

Flop raise to knock out preflop raiser didn't work and makes it three -- he's got a strong king, pocket aces, or (gulp) a pair of kings. So be it -- at least we know where we stand. You've still got well over 1/4 pot equity, so your bets are for value.

I'm not a huge fan of the turn play, though, for a few reasons:
1. If MP2 is on the diamond draw, you just gave him a free card. I think I bet it out, rather than going for the check-raise.
2. When it comes around to you, UTG just check-raised the turn. That's got to be a bit spooky, and I'm not sure I'm willing to make it three here. Maybe I'm just a coward at heart, though. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

River bet makes sense since the turn wasn't capped, although I'd REALLY hate to see a check-raise at this point. I'd pay it off, but at that point it would be nothing more than a crying call, and I'm down $20 when I never had a chance.

All in all, I think you win this pot.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the noncap on the flop is worth it, even though three people are obviously willing to put another SB in? They may not be willing to put more bets in once they see the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would almost never like this line. BUT..

A) I feel MP2 bets again a very large % of the time
B) Hero is in perfect position to CR the field
C) This flop seems to be of the texture that if you are willing to call capped betting on the flop, then you are willing to call one bet on the turn (keep in mind that hero is CRing the field here, and they will be trapped). You cant have a gutshot or overcards here (the types of hands that are profitable to take off on the flop but not on the turn).

The hands that would be calling are:

- Kings
- Diamonds
- Perhaps somethime like AdX, which would call the flop but not the turn
- PPs under KK

3 of these 4, if willing to call the capped betting, are probably going to also call the one bet when its back to them on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]

He'll raise a lot of the time anyway and we can three-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the down side of this line. If he would raise again, then capping is uber nice.

[pokerstudAA]

I think MP2 would play A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif mabye A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif the exact same way - except check that turn. Which really would suck.

The only other option I see is to cap the flop and lead the turn. Any A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif is coming along for that bet.

Capping the flop = extra 4 SB. Betting the turn = 4BB when everyone calls along? I get 2-3 more on the river. Total 8-9= BB.

Somehow I got 13 BB out of this. Let me count again. Both options the opponents have approx the same # of outs and are probably going to call anyway.

The check behind would REALLY SUCK!

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
I play A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif-A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif that way PF and on the flop for sure. Also KQ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and KJ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. And I'm checking a lot of those behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he is willing to check behind KdJd or so, then I agree with you that capping the flop is better.

(Reads would help here... keep in mind we arent playing you, and most players arent as good as you)