Smallish flush draw on a paired board

[MoreWineII]

I had this situation come up a couple of times last night and I was unsure of my plan.

I sit down (no reads) in the BB with 75 /images/graemlins/club.gif Five players donk and I check.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I'm uncomfortable leading into five other players, but check/call seems kinda...meh. What about if it's bet and raised back to me?

[CanKid]

Looks like a good check raise lead any turn hand to me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[crunchy1]

Several different situations....

If the board's 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif were less than one or both of your hole cards then I like a flop lead. You don't mind if the guy on your immediate left raises. You can gain some information from the action behind your lead and some of that action might just clean up some outs if you end up pairing one of your hole cards.

If you're going to check then I think you have two options. (1) You can c/r if the initial flop bet comes from your immediate left and trap the field for several flop bets building a hefty pot if you hit and it holds up at showdown. (2) You could choose the cheap way and just call and see what develops on the turn. I'd probably do this with a smaller number (0-1) callers where I'm not building the gigantic pot or 4-5 players putting in several flop bets.

[MoreWineII]

ne1 else? Is this really that easy?

[meep_42]

With the non-nut draw on a paired board with 2 undercards, I don't think you really have the equity to pound away at this flop with less than 4 callers. You have 5 here, so it's good. The Ks being paired lead me to believe that someone is going to stab at this pot, so, not knowing where that person may be, i'll check and look to raise a EP/MP bettor. It would really suck to bet and get raised on your left and watch everyone else melt away.

-d

[MoreWineII]

What if, say, there were only three limpers?

I see the logic in c/r'ing a large field. But what about a small one?

[PokerBob]

I usually lead this.

[meep_42]

With just 3 limpers, I don't like a bet or c/r on this board because:

1. You have no overcards / pair.
2. You are drawing to well below the nut flush (runner-runner kills you).
3. The paired card is a broadway.
4. You are out of position with no idea where a bet/raise will come from.
5. The pot is reasonably small.
6. I don't think you take this down on the turn UI.

All those together make this one a check/call with 3. 5+ or a PFR makes it more likely people will stick around and pay off your flush when it hits.

Maybe i'm off -- maybe a c/r-bet or bet-bet line has more folding equity than i'm giving credit for.

-d