sort of a brag post (some content)

[schwza]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($27.27)
BB ($50.6)
<font color="#C00000">UTG ($45.75)</font>
UTG+1 ($47.5)
MP1 ($51.3)
MP2 ($87.41)
CO ($55.45)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($64.2)</font>

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.75) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4, BB folds.

Turn: ($9.75) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

River: ($19.75) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $9</font>, Hero calls $9.

Final Pot: $37.75

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has Ts Td (full house, tens full of aces).
Hero has Jd Qd (flush, ace high).
Outcome: UTG wins $37.75. </font>

i feel like the way i played it on the flop and turn were whatever. those plays were debatable (and i'd like to hear some debate).

but then the river came and i was two seconds away from saying "ok, sweet, my flush got there, time to push." but then i started thinking a little. what exactly am i trying to get called by? if villain has KT, he's probably folding to a push. same thing for any flopped two pair, as it's counterfeited now, and i doubt that JJ-KK is going to call a push. basically the only hands that i'd want to get called by are AJ-AK, and since villain did not raise pre-flop, the most likely hand is AJ. and that is not very likely at all.

whereas this could easily be a flopped set or flopped TPTK, both of which beat me. so i called.

what inspired me to post it was my own reaction to it. when villain showed his boat, i was thrilled. it reminded me of someone saying (don't remember who) that poker is not about winning pots, it's about making good decisions. the flipside is my roomates, who are more casual players and who are happy when they win a pot and bummed when they lose, regardless of whether they won/lost the min/max.

[Leaky Game]

My name says it all, so feel free to let me know if you think I'm wrong but the way I see it your call on the flop and on the river were awful if you're not going to bet into the made flush.

From what I can see, you called a $4 flop bet with $2 in the pot (1.5 to 1, yuck). Then you called a $5 turn bet with $10 in the pot (3 to 1, still not good but okay if you think you can get him all in if you hit). Then your made your flush and didn't bet into it. I would have folded the flop, the odds aren't right. 9 outs to a non nut flush, two overcards that if came could make him an unlikely straight. With discounts, maybe 11-12 or so outs.

Since you made it all that way, I think I might have reraised the river knowing I'm paying a boat off. If you don't do this, then your other two calls make no sense at all.

Just my 2 cents

[BobboFitos]

leaky, you need to read the board better before you post

[etgryphon]

I think you played it just about perfect...

It does always make me happy when I KNOW that I made the right play on every street. There are time when I win that I'm upset because I know that I didn't bet it correctly to extract more money.

-Gryph

[Leaky Game]

Looking at the number of posts I have, obviously I'm the new guy. Can someone explain to me why you'd call the flop bet? Turn bet? What did I miss?

I'm here to be edumacated, this might seem like a stupid question but if I don't ask it, I'll never get any better.

[The_Bends]

Personally I wouldn't call the flop bet, however it is perfectly justifable if you tihnk the villian will pay off and your overcards are good. You definatly can't be worried about them making a straight and the betting would not suggest and overpair so you only have to be worried about them making some sort of 2pair. You therefore have 16 outs to beat a hand that looks scared already.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Replay the hand, but change the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif to the K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Now work out how much OP makes on the hand and then compute the implied odds that he had for each of his calls and see if that is sufficient to cover the odds that he needs to draw to his flush.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Replay the hand, but change the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif to the K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Now work out how much OP makes on the hand and then compute the implied odds that he had for each of his calls and see if that is sufficient to cover the odds that he needs to draw to his flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

and he has belly buster on flop and double belly buster on turn, both of which should expect to get paid off immensely

overcards you cant count as outs because if you continue to face aggression (on turn) so pot is very big it's unlikely top pair Q/J kicker takes it down
although if you *DO* turn thsoe and they check it's easy to imagaine winning the pot checking it down there, so it is nice

still, leaky, you're right the flop is marginal. Villain is overbetting alot. I HATE calling overbets or pot bets with marginal draws. So I dont. Here, though, you have a strong draw.

Raising the flop is another option, too, but I think there was a post just recently with a similar situation with flush + straight outs facing anoverbet.

[JKratzer]

[ QUOTE ]
It does always make me happy when I KNOW that I made the right play on every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

He obviously didn't play it perfect, with his read he should have folded on the river at least, if not before.

JKratzer

[swolfe]

i'd have probably raised the flop, maybe to $10. he'll either come over the top and you can fold, or he'll call and check to you on the turn...either because he only has top pair, or because he's trying to check-raise his set. check behind the turn to see if you hit your straight or flush draws.

[etgryphon]

I don't think it is obvious that he played it incorrectly.

I think the only marginal play might have been the call on the flop. The other option that has been raised here is raising on the flop which the more I think about it is the right play. I think the call is a second and I think I would have done it at these levels.

The turn is a clear pot odds call.

The river is a call also because I think you will be shown a loosing hand enough times that it will be profitable. The A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or the 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif where the two worst cards to fall and you got one of them. The villian made a good value bet at the end.

-Gryph

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the only marginal play might have been the call on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of coure ET thats the only place where he even has a decision he is automatically priced into both the turn and the river call bc of pot odds....

Plus - The decisions on the flop are the most decisions you can make in Holdem.
(this is almost word for word from Harrington on Holdem)

You cant reraise here bc you have little or no folding equity(someone who overbetts the pot on the flop isnt folding.)

You cant really call bc heads up im not sure you have the implied odds to draw(the villain FORCES the hero to define his hand as a draw by overbetting the pot).

Folding sucks but I think given the pot is so darn small and its not multiway I can lay it down here.

If the villain wants to win a few measely BB with a set of 10's all the more power to him.

BTW the villain played this hand horribly. That river bet is so gutless it mskes me wanna cry....or invite him to 2+2 im not sure.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd have probably raised the flop, maybe to $10. he'll either come over the top and you can fold, or he'll call and check to you on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a line i often take, but i don't like it here. if i make it 10 and he pushes, there is ~22 in dead money and it's ~35 to me, so i'd call 35 to win a total of 92. if he has KK/AA, i'm ~47% to win and folding costs me ~$8.25. if he has AT, it's much worse. but if he has a set, then i'm ~34% to win and calling costs me $3.75.

so if i do raise, i'm calling the push.

however, i still don't like that line b/c i don't think i have very good FE on the flop, and after raising the flop and checking the turn, i've marked myself as a flush draw.

i like a call.

[Spladle Master]

Nice hand.