Walk through this ATo from the BB with me. [Archive]

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uw_madtown

04-14-2005, 02:08 AM

I'm at 3/6 in sthief's OIC challenge (thanks for this btw, sthief -- it's propelled me to really get back to work on poker after a few months of a breakeven streak and lack of time).

Fresh to the table -- only player I have in PT is the LAG, who's a 45/6 player.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Madtown is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB :#A500AF(LAG)/ calls, Madtown calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
LAG checks, Madtown...

jclin

04-14-2005, 02:20 AM

You are +=EV at best. I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

I like check/call on flop. You must hope for better EV on turn. If turn comes a spade, a bet is definitely in order. If blank, check/call and bet a river blank. Fold to any JQK non-spade on turn.

crunchy1

04-14-2005, 08:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise by MP would be a great thing after you lead out - which you should. You are using MP to force out hands that could beat you on the turn or the river and would call one bet but not two. This works best for the CO/SB but could also cause UTG to fold a weak hand as well if he fears a raise from MP and doesn't want to put more than one bet in on the flop (I know - this is asking a lot from an unknown UTG - but it's worth considering). You also shouldn't risk the chance of giving a free card on this flop. I wouldn't feel good if the flop got checked through and a Q, J or K hit the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
You are +=EV at best... ...You must hope for better EV on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is EV?

[ QUOTE ]
If turn comes a spade, a bet is definitely in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we're going to bet our flush draw on the turn to build a pot for if we hit on the river - why not start on the flop where Hero is already likely holding the best hand?

Gob_Bluth

04-14-2005, 08:47 AM

Top (two) pair, top kicker, backdoor flush- I feel the raise by mp3 would do your hand good, as it will force out the co and sb (hopefully) leaving mp3 to beat your hand with either a higher pockets (against which you have outs) or a draw to overcards of which a possible A will make you shout PWNED... Lead out.

(Completely new- but have been lurking a While... working on the lingo.)

Donk

04-14-2005, 08:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm at 3/6 in sthief's OIC challenge (thanks for this btw, sthief -- it's propelled me to really get back to work on poker after a few months of a breakeven streak and lack of time).

Fresh to the table -- only player I have in PT is the LAG, who's a 45/6 player.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Madtown is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB :#A500AF(LAG)/ calls, Madtown calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
LAG checks, Madtown...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I am assuming SB checked too. I bet here and hope the pf raiser blows away the field with a raise.

adamstewart

04-14-2005, 09:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm at 3/6 in sthief's OIC challenge (thanks for this btw, sthief -- it's propelled me to really get back to work on poker after a few months of a breakeven streak and lack of time).

Fresh to the table -- only player I have in PT is the LAG, who's a 45/6 player.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Madtown is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB :#A500AF(LAG)/ calls, Madtown calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
LAG checks, Madtown...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I am assuming SB checked too. I bet here and hope the pf raiser blows away the field with a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB = LAG

adamstewart

04-14-2005, 09:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You are +=EV at best. I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

I like check/call on flop. You must hope for better EV on turn. If turn comes a spade, a bet is definitely in order. If blank, check/call and bet a river blank. Fold to any JQK non-spade on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Adam

adamstewart

04-14-2005, 09:14 AM

Bet, and welcome MP3's raise (if it happens).

Adam

Donk

04-14-2005, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You are +=EV at best. I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

I like check/call on flop. You must hope for better EV on turn. If turn comes a spade, a bet is definitely in order. If blank, check/call and bet a river blank. Fold to any JQK non-spade on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not betting the flop here is horrific.

Blindly betting a turn /images/graemlins/spade.gif without considering many other factors is retarded.

Pokey

04-14-2005, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You are +=EV at best. I would definitely not lead out, b/c raise by MP puts you in the crapper (but with plenty of outs).

[/ QUOTE ]

I just can't see the logic to this. Why are you so hesitant to say you're ahead on this flop? In the only likely bad-case scenarios, you've got about 6.5 outs to a winner (three aces, two tens, 1.5 for the runner-runner flush). (OK, he could have AA in the hole, but given that you've got one of them, that's even less likely than usual, and it doesn't pay to see monsters under every bed.) More often than not, you've got him dead to rights and drawing to at most 6 outs. If he's got an ace (not unlikely), he's reverse-dominated and drawing to three outs.

YHIG -- bet it and punish the chasers.

uw_madtown

04-14-2005, 03:24 PM

Seems like the consensus is to bet, hoping for a raise. I was unsure. I went for a check-raise instead. I was fairly sure in retrospect that it was the incorrect play.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Madtown is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB (LAG) calls, Madtown calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
LAG checks, Madtown checks, UTG checks, MP3 bets, CO folds, LAG calls, Madtown raises, UTG folds, MP3 calls, LAG calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
LAG checks, Madtown bets, MP3 calls, LAG folds.

River: (10 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Madtown bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

sexypanda

04-14-2005, 03:31 PM

Am I the only one who leads out, hopes for a raise and then 3-bets the flop here?

adamstewart

04-14-2005, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who leads out, hopes for a raise and then 3-bets the flop here?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but obviously you're the only one who hasn't read (comprehended?) the thread thus far.

Adam