Flopped the Nuts, Rivered a Royal, but think I F'ed Up Pre Flop!

[Talk2BigSteve]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (11.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 17.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has 9s 9c (flush, ace high).
UTG+1 has Ad 6h (two pair, aces and queens).
Hero has Tc Jd (straight flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 17.25 BB. </font>

I think the only mistake I made is I should have folded pre-flop when UTG raises. Am I right??? Was calling a PF raise a mistake even though I had to post a blind so I came in for half price??? I won, but I still think I should have folded PF???

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ArturiusX]

The biggest mistake is that you're posting in UTG+2

[NAU_Player]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest mistake is that you're posting in UTG+2

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I'm thinking about posting in UTG+2 from now on so I can hit runner-runner Royals...

[ArturiusX]

The trick is to hit them on the river, so those suckas have to pay you off, yo!

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest mistake is that you're posting in UTG+2

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL sometimes you have to hit that Deal Me Out button when nature calls and pay the piper when you get back.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The biggest mistake is that you're posting in UTG+2

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL sometimes you have to hit that Deal Me Out button when nature calls and pay the piper when you get back.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

or wait 2more hands??

anyway the flop call is prob fine since you did post

[Entity]

The only mistake in this hand is posting UTG+2.

[macdaddy991]

Were you living, learning and laughing on the toilet?

JK, wait next time till the bling gets to you and then you don't have to post a dead blind.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
The only mistake in this hand is posting UTG+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should start grunching. You won't learn anything reposting my posts /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only mistake in this hand is posting UTG+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should start grunching. You won't learn anything reposting my posts /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between "the biggest" and "the only." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[spoohunter]

The preflop call is fine, given that you posted.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Were you living, learning and laughing on the toilet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahaha.

[Wally Weeks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only mistake in this hand is posting UTG+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should start grunching. You won't learn anything reposting my posts /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between "the biggest" and "the only." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Seriously, the biggest mistake in this hand is only posting UTG+2.

[Wally Weeks]

[ QUOTE ]
The preflop call is fine, given that you posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes me wonder how many people that read these forums post in this position. I have done this by accident a couple times when I sit down four tabling. Usually I look pretty well to see where I'm positioned before I post. I'm not that impatient I guess...

Regards,
Wally

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The preflop call is fine, given that you posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes me wonder how many people that read these forums post in this position. I have done this by accident a couple times when I sit down four tabling. Usually I look pretty well to see where I'm positioned before I post. I'm not that impatient I guess...

Regards,
Wally

[/ QUOTE ]

All of the sudden I have a sickening feeling, I like so many(fish) that play poker online, click that auto post blind button, right when they sit down, and then right when I get back. I know that 50 cents seem no big deal at the moment, but I don't even want to know what that has added up to be over the past 53,154 hands of poker....YIKES!

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[McNeese72]

Okay, a newbie question here (not to hijack the thread). Should you always avoid posting a blind when first sitting at a table and wait for the BB to come around? Or are there any positions where it might be considered okay? And the reasoning why. I'm here to learn. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[KaiShin]

I'll always post in MP3 or later. I'll sometimes post in MP1 or MP2 if the table is mega-loose. If I'm in EP I will wait for the BB to come around.

[HajiShirazu]

Posting UTG+2 is like a .2 BB mistake. There really aren't a lot of worse mistakes you can make than that. But maybe you had your reasons. BTW this is coming from somebody who always posts in the CO and MP3 because I think it's more profitable than waiting if you are a winning player of any magnitude. I think the CO is a lot better, maybe even better than the BB, and I think MP3 is about break even. This comes from pokertracker position stats of the next seats as well as my estimate that CO and MP3 are a little better than posting a BB in terms of -EV. Ok, I know, OT.
The call preflop would probably be okay if you were closing the action in the BB and some others had called (this is why it is worse to have to post a blind from UTG+2.) As it is it kind of sucks. JTo is a pretty terrible hand to have here even for half price, it has reverse implied odds problems and it also has extremely low equity if you look at the types of hands played in a multiway raised pot. But what would really blow chunks is if it got 3 bet or capped, and there are still 7 people behind you. Paying 3/4 bets with JTo makes me puke.
One key to calling preflop with JTo after UTG+2 post is to make a royal and get paid off the whole way. Good hand.

[Lazy9C1]

I post in CO and sometimes MP3. Anything earlier than that and I wait for the blind to come around. I like watching a few hands before I start playing, even if I'm on another table.

[grimel]

If you get HONEST replies, I'm betting it depends on how many hands vs how much time left for the current bonus. If the player is cutting it close on the bonus, I'd say a host of people would post from any open seat figuring a $2 (even $4 across 4 tables $16 total) BB is EV+ if it makes getting the $100 bonus happen vs losing the $100 bonus.

Not that anyone would wait to the last minute to whore a bonus. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[btspider]

use both cards next time.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
The only mistake in this hand is posting UTG+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd fold to the UTG raise.

[buriedbeds]

I personally always wait for the bb to post. This is because I typically 4-table, and (1) it gives me extra time to get set up (open the tables, turn chat off for all players on all tables, which I think is important because I find that chatting does nothing but make me more ineffecient and potentially tilt (see the 2+2 magazine's article on multitabling...it's great for tips like that), get my screen set up the way I like it, etc.), (2) it allows me to watch some hands once I have everything set up, and (3) a *lot* of players auto-raise when someone's posting out of the blinds (rightly, often, imo), and if I'm not posting I'm able to avoid some potentially sticky situations (such as that described in this thread...though I guess it would have been a more apt example with a different result... /images/graemlins/smile.gif ). On a single table with lots of thought-time I'm sure these hands would probably be long-term profitable, but I think that on multiple tables the profit margin for tricky hands goes down as an effect of the less time you're devoting to each hand, so I believe that avoiding unnecessary tricky hands increases my long-term profitability.

-jake.

"just my thoughts, just what I was feeling at the time."

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only mistake in this hand is posting UTG+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd fold to the UTG raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in what will likely be a ginormous pot. Sucks that you're opening yourself up to the potential of a 3-bet behind you but I wouldn't fold.

Rob

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
Posting UTG+2 is like a .2 BB mistake. There really aren't a lot of worse mistakes you can make than that. But maybe you had your reasons. BTW this is coming from somebody who always posts in the CO and MP3 because I think it's more profitable than waiting if you are a winning player of any magnitude. I think the CO is a lot better, maybe even better than the BB, and I think MP3 is about break even. This comes from pokertracker position stats of the next seats as well as my estimate that CO and MP3 are a little better than posting a BB in terms of -EV. Ok, I know, OT.
The call preflop would probably be okay if you were closing the action in the BB and some others had called (this is why it is worse to have to post a blind from UTG+2.) As it is it kind of sucks. JTo is a pretty terrible hand to have here even for half price, it has reverse implied odds problems and it also has extremely low equity if you look at the types of hands played in a multiway raised pot. But what would really blow chunks is if it got 3 bet or capped, and there are still 7 people behind you. Paying 3/4 bets with JTo makes me puke.
One key to calling preflop with JTo after UTG+2 post is to make a royal and get paid off the whole way. Good hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just went back and checked my poker traker out of 53,154 hands I had the following.

Hands with a Big Blind 6543 hands
Hands with a Small Blind 5998 hands
I posted a BB 545 more times or VP$272.50IP becuase I just never thought about waiting for the orbit to come around.

Damn I feel like [censored]! No wonder I have a 1.76BB/100 winrate.

Big Steve

[fl0w]

It's not always wrong to post, but it's wrong to always post.

[Ringo_Mojo]

I think calling the PF raise is really dependent on the table. If it's a loose table and you're likely to get a lot of cold callers after you then calling is ok, you'll be getting good odds on your bet to draw to a strong hand, and can still throw it away if the flop misses you.

Since you're posting I assume you just joined the table, but hopefully you watched it a bit beforehand so you know what the general feel is.

[Walker]

I'm really surprised by you guys. I would normally auto-muck this. You've got a marginal hand and terrible position.

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]

Since you're posting I assume you just joined the table, but hopefully you watched it a bit beforehand so you know what the general feel is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, I had just came back from the crapper. Higher up in the thread I had the info about posting the blinds, I still can't believe that it never occured to me in 50K+ hands to wait for the orbit to go by instead of posting a blind. God this still pisses me off. Freakin' Noob Mistakes that I know probably cost me a couple hundred easy.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Felipe]

/images/graemlins/cool.gifblindreply

I think fold preflop
you be be dominated, and more people left to act behind you, and you are OOP (out of pos)

felipe

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The biggest mistake is that you're posting in UTG+2

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I'm thinking about posting in UTG+2 from now on so I can hit runner-runner Royals...

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue"> LMFAO </font>

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]
Should you always avoid posting a blind when first sitting at a table and wait for the BB to come around? Or are there any positions where it might be considered okay?

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost ALWAYS wait for the BB to come around to me. Here's why
1) I can get a read on the table
2) I can find the fish, and the rocks, the LAGS and the rest that I can use to finance my university tuition

I post on button-1 (the cutoff) here's why
1) I can see 7 hands for the price of 1.5 small bets (or 0.75 BB)
2) I am in good position

the down side to the later is no reads on players, but ...here's why NOT

MOST of the hands i'm dealt SUCK PEN1S, so I'll have time to hunt the fishies and avoid the rocks as the puck orbits the table.