I suck and I'm a pussy (and I'm an idiot)

[jason_t]

UTG+1 is 31/31/7 after 22 hands but I haven't seen any of his hands and Button is 41/0/.17 after 93 hands. (Those af numbers include preflop; I don't know how to get just postflop af numbers in Poker Tracker. I'm an idiot.)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: I is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">I 3-bet</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, I calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, I call, Button calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, I call, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, I fold.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

[SmileyEH]

Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet?

-SmileyEH

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet?

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

At the least, I have outs to the wheel. Folding seems bad.

[brettbrettr]

I wouldn't fold against a guy with those numbers. I'd raise the turn and if he pops me I'm calling down.

[tytygoodnuts]

I would raise the turn definitely.

[mr pink]

tough hand. i think you boofed it on the turn by just calling there. what'd you put utg+1 on that you were afraid of that got you into calling down? i make that mistake sometimes after getting check/raised on the flop (i think terrible thoughts and just say [censored] it i'm calling this chump down)

river is weird too. with that guys aggression factor, i can't really say i can blame you for the fold... especially after a bet and caller, he'd have to be insane to bluff raise at that point. only way you folded the winner here is if the button raised the river with something like KQ or another AQ.

i wouldn't beat yourself up about it too bad though if that was the case.

[gaming_mouse]

Raise the turn. Your river fold is gorgeous, though.

[Pokey]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn. Your river fold is gorgeous, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed on both counts; you're likely to be WAY ahead on the turn, but you're dead on the river when the rocktard wakes up. Conveniently, if he spiked his set on the river (I'm thinking that's what happened) your turn raise would have sent him packing.

[CallMeIshmael]

Raise the turn.

Dont fold if 3-bet. You have too many outs.

On the topic of pokertracker:

- Go into your main database
- Click on "more details"
- The screen with things like aggression factors comes up
- Near the top, under "Game Level" uncheck that box

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn.

Dont fold if 3-bet. You have too many outs.

On the topic of pokertracker:

- Go into your main database
- Click on "more details"
- The screen with things like aggression factors comes up
- Near the top, under "Game Level" uncheck that box

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

[RollingRockMike]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is 31/31/7 after 22 hands but I haven't seen any of his hands and Button is 41/0/.17 after 93 hands. (Those af numbers include preflop; I don't know how to get just postflop af numbers in Poker Tracker. I'm an idiot.)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: I is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">I 3-bet</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, I calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, I call, Button calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, I call, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, I fold.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]
Call me whatever, but I'm folding the flop.

Edit: Actually, I'm a bit handicapped since I don't know the ordering of these numbers. Absent of any tells I'm dumping this. Actually, absent any tells and I'm dumping preflop.

Mike

[GrekeHaus]

You are definitely whatever Mike. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

You've got 4 outs to a straight and 6 overs. You should take one off and probably fold unimproved.

Raising the turn is pretty much manditory here, it's much more likely he's betting a medium pair here than a set or straight.

[RollingRockMike]

[ QUOTE ]
You are definitely whatever Mike. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

You've got 4 outs to a straight and 6 overs. You should take one off and probably fold unimproved.

Raising the turn is pretty much manditory here, it's much more likely he's betting a medium pair here than a set or straight.

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no. A 2 is probaby a split, mabye 3 way; only if no one's got a 6. Ace is good if no one's got a two and no one has AK or Ax where x = 2345. You're almost certainly losing and your outs are dirty at best - the best you can hope for is a Q. I'm dumping this because I'm losing and I don't like any of my outs, if they even exist.

Mike

[Klepton]

even though we jokingly called you a nit, not raising the turn here might have catapulted you into nit territory...

i'll give you one more chance, but only cuz i like you

[GrekeHaus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are definitely whatever Mike. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

You've got 4 outs to a straight and 6 overs. You should take one off and probably fold unimproved.

Raising the turn is pretty much manditory here, it's much more likely he's betting a medium pair here than a set or straight.

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no. A 2 is probaby a split, mabye 3 way; only if no one's got a 6. Ace is good if no one's got a two and no one has AK or Ax where x = 2345. You're almost certainly losing and your outs are dirty at best - the best you can hope for is a Q. I'm dumping this because I'm losing and I don't like any of my outs, if they even exist.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm aware of all this and I'm aware that he might not win even if he improves. However, the pot is already quite big and your reason for folding is very weak/tight. Even if somebody has AK and somebody has a medium pair, you still have 5 full outs which easily justifies a call. Furthermore, you have no reason to assume anybody has any of these hands you mentioned. There's a good chance he's just got middle pair, or possibly a worse ace. You shouldn't be looking for reasons to fold a big pot for just one small bet. It is much better to lose it than to risk losing a huge pot you should have won.

[RollingRockMike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are definitely whatever Mike. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

You've got 4 outs to a straight and 6 overs. You should take one off and probably fold unimproved.

Raising the turn is pretty much manditory here, it's much more likely he's betting a medium pair here than a set or straight.

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no. A 2 is probaby a split, mabye 3 way; only if no one's got a 6. Ace is good if no one's got a two and no one has AK or Ax where x = 2345. You're almost certainly losing and your outs are dirty at best - the best you can hope for is a Q. I'm dumping this because I'm losing and I don't like any of my outs, if they even exist.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm aware of all this and I'm aware that he might not win even if he improves. However, the pot is already quite big and your reason for folding is very weak/tight. Even if somebody has AK and somebody has a medium pair, you still have 5 full outs which easily justifies a call. Furthermore, you have no reason to assume anybody has any of these hands you mentioned. There's a good chance he's just got middle pair, or possibly a worse ace. You shouldn't be looking for reasons to fold a big pot for just one small bet. It is much better to lose it than to risk losing a huge pot you should have won.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've always thought of weak-tight as someone that calls preflop with a weak hand and then folds w/o a fight when the flop misses them. This is far from this situation, where
a) you put up a fight
b) it's clear that you are losing
c) all your outs suck

It's not just 'one small bet', but the reverse implied odds of hitting and losing and the tiny implied odds of hitting and not being paid off.

Of course the pot is on the larger side, but it's really all your fault for re-raising with a weaker hand and no good read.

Mike

[Donk]

This fold blows.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
This fold blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Look at the read and the action again.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
This fold blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy is 41/0/0.17... that is chronically passive.

He is raising two players on the river.

Hero has one pair.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Call me whatever, but I'm folding the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're getting 14:1.

That means you need about 3 outs to be OK.

There are very few hands you can put UTG+1/button on that hero has &lt; 3 outs. (like KK vs AK vs hero is one... and you still have 2!!!!).

Dont fold.

[Donk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This fold blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Look at the read and the action again.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Maybe I suck, but closing the action getting 16:1 I am hard pressed to muck this.

[RollingRockMike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call me whatever, but I'm folding the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're getting 14:1.

That means you need about 3 outs to be OK.

There are very few hands you can put UTG+1/button on that hero has &lt; 3 outs. (like KK vs AK vs hero is one... and you still have 2!!!!).

Dont fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. Which outs are good and which ones are you paying someone off? It's a small bet into a fairly large pot, but if you hit there's still a lot of bets to go. Unsurprisingly, that's exactly what happened. Your reverse implied odds suck and so do your implied odds; in my opinion they are poor enough to unjustify the pot odds.

I think he misplayed every street and would have saved himself a lot of trouble by just folding this marginal hand preflop.

Mike

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This fold blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Look at the read and the action again.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Maybe I suck, but closing the action getting 16:1 I am hard pressed to muck this.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is almost no chance that my hand is good. Folding in large pots is usually bad but calling after a very passive player wakes up and raises two people on the river is also bad.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah. Which outs are good and which ones are you paying someone off? It's a small bet into a fairly large pot, but if you hit there's still a lot of bets to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesnt matter. Yes, sometimes you will be forced to payoff. But we have WAY more than 3 effective outs here. Its not even close.

The range of hands these players can have is such that folding is really bad. It's not unthinkable that we have 10 outs here. I would say a good average is 5-6.

[ QUOTE ]
Unsurprisingly, that's exactly what happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results dont matter.

[ QUOTE ]
Your reverse implied odds suck

[/ QUOTE ]

Reverse implied odds are at work when

A) Hero might have the best hand
B) Hero has little chance of improving
C) Opposition bets
D) Opposition has abilty to slowdown when behind, but charge you the max when ahead
E) Your effective odds on a calldown are not great

In this case:

A) Hero doesnt think he has the best hand
B) Hero has a very good chance of improving
E) Effective odds on a calldown (assuming you catch) are not poor.

[ QUOTE ]
and so do your implied odds; in my opinion they are poor enough to unjustify the pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are getting WAY more than enough odds to call (which itself should be enough to call), but we are certainly going to get paid off when we hit.

[CallMeIshmael]

Also... giving villians VERY unfavourable ranges, we have an equity

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 21.0373 % [ 00.15 00.06 ] { AcQs }
Hand 2: 53.7318 % [ 00.49 00.05 ] { AA-TT, AKs, AKo }
Hand 3: 25.2309 % [ 00.20 00.05 ] { AA-88, AKs-ATs, KQs-KJs, AKo-AJo, KQo }

There is no way either of these players are that tight, AND AA-JJ + AK are less likely because of the no cap.

Even with this range, we only need 3.76-1 on a call down.

We are getting WAY WAY more than that. Folding is a mistake.

[Perseus]

So is folding here the general standard for everyone?

Wow, this is why I'm not winning. I call this down, as I think the pot is big enough.

God I suck

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
So is folding here the general standard for everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Just against a 41/0/0.17, a raise tends to mean I have more than a pair.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
So is folding here the general standard for everyone?

Wow, this is why I'm not winning. I call this down, as I think the pot is big enough.

God I suck

[/ QUOTE ]

A river raise from a passive player, especially in a non HU situation, often means a pair is not good.

[Donk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This fold blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Look at the read and the action again.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Maybe I suck, but closing the action getting 16:1 I am hard pressed to muck this.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is almost no chance that my hand is good. Folding in large pots is usually bad but calling after a very passive player wakes up and raises two people on the river is also bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, hence the maybe i suck comment. Actually, I should have ditched the "maybe".

[Yodaman]

Call me noob but can someone clarify what each of the #s stand for?

And not some abbreviation. Thanks.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
even though we jokingly called you a nit, not raising the turn here might have catapulted you into nit territory...

i'll give you one more chance, but only cuz i like you

[/ QUOTE ]

At least I'll never be a short nit.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
Call me noob but can someone clarify what each of the #s stand for?

And not some abbreviation. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) VP$IP - Voluntarily Put Money Into Pot
2) PFR - Preflop raise
3) Overall Aggression factor

[Yodaman]

Sorry for another question, but how do these numbers get calculated?

For overall aggression, its out of 10?
And what is considered a High number and a low number for each of these ratings?

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for another question, but how do these numbers get calculated?

For overall aggression, its out of 10?
And what is considered a High number and a low number for each of these ratings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Aggression is simply - (Bet % + Raise %) / Call %
So, it can be 0 (all calls) to infinite (all bets/raises/folds).

-d

[shant]

First, you should consider getting Pokertracker.

VPIP is out of 100.
PFR is also a percentage.
I'm not sure how AF is calculated but I think below 1.5 is passive and above is aggressive. I could be wrong on this one, but most aggressive players are higher than 2.0. This guy's AF being zero-point-whatever means he is passive.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for another question, but how do these numbers get calculated?

For overall aggression, its out of 10?
And what is considered a High number and a low number for each of these ratings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Aggression is simply - (Bet % + Raise %) / Call %
So, it can be 0 (all calls) to infinite (all bets/raises/folds).

-d

[/ QUOTE ]
Good to know, thanks meep.

[Yodaman]

I'm definetely considering getting poker tracker, but I'm a poor college student with no job trying to make some extra spending money and hopefully pay those loans after school is out. I guess this gives me even more reasons to be getting poker tracker /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm definetely considering getting poker tracker, but I'm a poor college student with no job trying to make some extra spending money and hopefully pay those loans after school is out. I guess this gives me even more reasons to be getting poker tracker /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It pays for itself, easily.
1500 hands at .5/1 is completely and totally worth it.

-d

[Yodaman]

Okay my final pokertracker question.

How does VPIP work?

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay my final pokertracker question.

How does VPIP work?

[/ QUOTE ]
When someone calls or raises or comes into the pot and they aren't in the blinds, they are voluntarily putting $ into the pot.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
voluntarily putting $ into the vot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funniest. Typo. Ever.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
voluntarily putting $ into the vot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funniest. Typo. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hahaha, fixed.

[GrekeHaus]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm definetely considering getting poker tracker, but I'm a poor college student with no job trying to make some extra spending money and hopefully pay those loans after school is out. I guess this gives me even more reasons to be getting poker tracker /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I've made about $15,000 since getting poker tracker last October. The biggest advantage (I think) is the ability it gives you to play more tables effectively, and to analyse your play after the fact. You should also get PlayerView, which is free right now.

If you have enough money to gamble, you should have enough money to shell out $50 to buy this product.

[i_hate_jason_t]

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
You suck. Raise the turn you pussy. Die you idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least you give decent poker advice. What about betting the flop? Do you think that was bad?

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
You suck. Raise the turn you pussy. Die you idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I was popular enough to have a troll hate me. Must be JT's avatars.

[rmarotti]

Best. Gimmick Acount. Ever.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Best. Gimmick Acount. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

No more /images/graemlins/heart.gif from you? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You suck. Raise the turn you pussy. Die you idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I was popular enough to have a troll hate me. Must be JT's avatars.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is wrong with my avatars? Someone on the Internet hates me. I'm feeling really insecure right now.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Best. Gimmick Acount. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way. Was the flop bet bad here? That was one reason I posted the hand. Obvioulsy the turn was a disaster, and I was told that fifty times, but no one talked about the flop.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way. Was the flop bet bad here?

[/ QUOTE ]

no.

EDIT: I was eating a hot dog while writing that reply. Let me elaborate.

- You are in the lead
- That flop hit like 0.3% of all their unpaired hands
- You have a 31/31/7 who DIDNT cap preflop (pair = unlikely)
- You have a calling station who called preflop
- There is a good chance you have the best hand
- If you dont, you have like massive outs
- All worse aces will call you down

[Soviet Exile]

I agree; it's a bad fold. Given how passively you played the hand, and the fact that he's at 41%, the button could have quite a range of hands. What are his cold calling standards? What did you think think he had? For christ sake, he could have A8s. If he's this passive, would he play QJ this way?

What did he turn over? There must be a reason for you to post this.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree; it's a bad fold. Given how passively you played the hand, and the fact that he's at 41%, the button could have quite a range of hands. What are his cold calling standards? What did you think think he had? For christ sake, he could have A8s. If he's this passive, would he play QJ this way?

What did he turn over? There must be a reason for you to post this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I posted this because I wasn't sure about the flop bet nor was I sure about how I played the turn. No one can convince me that the river fold was incorrect.

pseudo-quote: If someone pulls out a gun and points it at my cock telling me to call, I MIGHT consider folding as an option.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
You suck. Raise the turn you pussy. Die you idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to have rage issues.

[private joker]

The river fold is the easiest part of the hand. Preflop 3-bet is standard given your read (there are times I fold this, and I never cold-call it).

Even with the Button's donkish stats, his cold-calling of 3 bets is kind of scary. He's not a maniac, but he has a hand he thinks could be best.

I like the flop bet after maniac checks. It could get a reaction out of button, and you can't always expect a check raise. But a check on the flop wouldn't be awful at all.

As for the turn, once button is sticking around, you have to wonder what he has. But since he hasn't shown any aggression (he never does), you might have to just raise for value with your TPTK. That will help you see once and for all where you are. But I don't know how I feel about getting 3-bet on the turn by maniac. It's a tough street.

River blows but you have to call the first bet and fold to the raise.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You suck. Raise the turn you pussy. Die you idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to have rage issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. What is going on?

[kslghost]

I think a river call is quite necessary here. While its possible that you are beat, you do have top pair top kicker in the end with over 16 big bets in the pot. Let's say you are presented this situation 16 times. You only have to be right once to be profitable. Given their stats, I think you do have that opportunity.

However, I don't believe this situation should ever have occured. First, I like the three bet on UTG+1 because he raises so many. Even the button calling doesn't look that bad to you because he chronically calls on way too many hands without ever raising.

The flop is not horrible for you. You're being offered good odds to call, and the bet is appropriate. I would not be surprised if either one was ahead at this point, but you must call the raise at this point because of the number of outs combined with the way that UTG+1 plays. He has raised so often that you can't respect him at this point.

The turn call, I believe, is the biggest mistake you made. You got the best possible card on the turn for your particular hand. If you get reraised, you may be able to dump the hand, but not raising gives you no information. You have to raise to at least get an idea to where you are.

That's what I think about the hand...

To be realistic, it's an unfortunate situation in any case. Good luck!

[Turtle]

Interesting hand.

For what it's worth, I question the fold on the river too.

The passive button may be making a play on the over aggressive MP1. Just because he's super loose doesn't mean he's too dumb to notice MP1 betting at every opportunity.

I guess the other question I have is whether you'd make the same decision if you just sat down at the table and didn't have any reads. I'm not letting 100 hands on P-tracker talk me out of a 15BB hand for one bet more.

I'm betting MP1 showed KQs or QJs.

I am eager to be shown I am wrong, however.

Regards.

-jeff

[rmarotti]

I will always /images/graemlins/heart.gif you, jason. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif That gimmick account is pretty funny though. I like the flop bet because I think you might well have the best hand given that guys stats. It also could help put you in the drivers seat, though that raise is a bit disheartening. BTW, I'm going to be in SoCal twice in the next couple months. Commerce trip?

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I'm going to be in SoCal twice in the next couple months. Commerce trip?

[/ QUOTE ]

Game on.

[rmarotti]

Awesome. I'm gonna be there from next Monday to Sunday, but will be pretty busy and most likely just play in Ventura. I'm coming out in May for my sis's graduation and will probably do a post with dates to get people stoked and garner interest.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I'm going to be in SoCal twice in the next couple months. Commerce trip?

[/ QUOTE ]

Game on.

[/ QUOTE ]
Time for some wing-dings in the high limit area.

[cnfuzzd]

[ QUOTE ]
Best. Gimmick Acount. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

incorrect, as sfer pointed out, clearly the best gimmick account ever is JBB, followed up closely by the NPA's gimmick account, Mason Malmouth.

peace

john nickle

[rmarotti]

Third. Best. Gimmick Account. Ever.

fmp /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[habsfanca11]

RM, I moved from Ventura less than 2 years ago (before I started playing poker). Could you educate me on where there's poker for when I go back? Appreciate any info. you might have. Thanks.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I will always /images/graemlins/heart.gif you, jason. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif That gimmick account is pretty funny though. I like the flop bet because I think you might well have the best hand given that guys stats. It also could help put you in the drivers seat, though that raise is a bit disheartening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good. I feel a little better.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I'm going to be in SoCal twice in the next couple months. Commerce trip?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I'll PM you.

[Soviet Exile]

What are you guys putting the button on? And why? He's not saying I can beat top pair because no one has offered him the chance to say that. If you don't raise the turn, I don't see how you can fold the river for one more at 16-1.

What do you put MP2 on? What do you do if MP2 folds? I presume you call.

[PokerProdigy]

RAISE TURN!!!!!