SB vs BB, unraised pot, 2nd pair

[balkii]

folded to SB who limps, I check 8d6d in the BB

flop J 8 4 r

he bet, I raise, 3-bet, I call

turn 9h

bet call

river Ks

bet call


dont raise the flop? fold th eturn? WHAT
PLEASE GOD HELP

[mperich]

Raise preflop. Rest looks ok I guess what level? I call this down at 10/20 everytime.

-Mike

[balkii]

sorry 10/20

i really dont understand the raise pf. people dont fold in this game, and bluff frequently. why not wait to invest in the pot until i see if i have anything

[mperich]

I raise any 2 preflop in this spot. Maybe not 72o but usually depending on the blind unless hes a TOTAL cs. Basically, if you dont raise pf most players will bet any flop and you have to hit the flop to continue. If you raise then you can win by improving, or if you both miss.

-Mike

[balkii]

dont you think some of these guys will start to pick up on you raising every complete? which will then cause them to start a)limp-raising from the SB on a re-steal (i've seen guys do this with J5o) or b) cause them to start openraising instead of opencompleting?

i cant handle the LAGs

[mperich]

[ QUOTE ]
dont you think some of these guys will start to pick up on you raising every complete?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they arent paying that much attention. Although, im very aggressive in any blindsteal situation, so I guess for them its par for the course.

[ QUOTE ]
which will then cause them to start a)limp-raising from the SB on a re-steal (i've seen guys do this with J5o)

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys are not restealing on purpose, 99% of the time. They are just donks who say "Hey, he raised me. Well, Ill reraise him out of position with junk!"

[ QUOTE ]
b) cause them to start openraising instead of opencompleting?


[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes, or the weaker ones (who are probably the ones openlimping in the first place) will start to fold rather than face a raise everytime. Besides if they start openraising all the time you are probably a better postflop player, and you have position.

-Mike

[balkii]

you are probably a better postflop player

the way things have been going lately im starting to doubt this... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

and i still dont want them openraising my blind everytime!

im gonna start a new thread regard the effects of increased preflop aggression on postflop situations though.

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
These guys are not restealing on purpose, 99% of the time. They are just donks who say "Hey, he raised me. Well, Ill reraise him out of position with junk!"

[/ QUOTE ]
loose passives re-raise in this spot w/legitimate hands -99% is stretching your point just a bit.The generic players(donks included) may re-raise on emotion,tilt whatever maybe 25%-35% tops in this spot in my experience at $5-10..tilting LAGS have the capacity to do it regularly thu...dunnuh about $10-20..yet.

[cartman]

(I play 5/10, so I will treat your opponent as a 5/10 player who is more aggressive than average, but not a psycho.)

I raise the flop with any pair (I usually wait til the turn with top pair J's or higher), any draw, and overcards that I think are best. When he 3-bets on a rainbow board I would immediately give him credit for (in order of likelihood): a J, an 8, two pair, or a good draw (only T9 qualifies on this particular flop). When the 9 hits on the turn, your 86 is now behind all of those hands except for 85, 83, and 82. Even if you have 6 outs (and I think that is generous), the 5 to 1 odds you are getting when you face your turn decision are not enough. It is a clear fold on the turn for me.

Cartman

[goodguy_1]

-very nice post
thorough,logical and right-on!