Is this move always a mistake ??

[tjh]

Party Poker single table tourney. Did I overdo the aggression or would this move usually yield a fold.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1235)
MP1 (t1435)
Hero (t1485)
CO (t610)
Button (t1040)
SB (t335)
BB :#A500AF(Villain)/ (t1860)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB (Villain)/ calls t100.

Flop: (t450) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Villain checks,
Hero betss all-in for 1285
Villain calls t1285.

Turn: (t1735) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t1735) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1735

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Villain has 9d 9c (straight, ten high).
Hero has 2s 2c (two pair, sevens and twos).
Outcome: Villain wins t1735. </font>

[strelok]

I think this is a fold PF. Or if you feeling brave limp and check-fold the flop if you don't make trips.

[lorinda]

Or if you feeling brave limp

People rarely fold to a limp, if you want to play this, a mini raise is much better.

Hero betss all-in for 1285

It will sometimes get a fold, but not often enough, it even looks like a bluff.... what hand do you think you are representing here? I can't think of ANY.

I'd bet 250-300 and give up if you can't make him fold.

Edited: Every hand you might push with on this flop would have been more than a mini raise preflop.

Lori

[Phoenix1010]

First off, in general, if you're trying to steal, raise something that counts. Minraising allows The BB to call with a very wide range of hands, and entices the SB to push all-in. Raise at least 3x BB.

In that position preflop, that's probably a fold. Don't get in the habit of stealing from so far off the button when you have a healthy stack.

Given how you played it, I don't mind trying to steal the pot, but going all-in is overkill. You can accomplish all of the same things with a 3/5 pot sized bet, so why risk your whole tourney needlessly? You're going to get called or checkraised when you're beat, try to lose the minimum, because the maximum you can win is already in the pot.

-Phoenix

[AA suited]

i would raise to 250 preflop and check/fold to river if called. (unless you get your set.)

[kyro]

So you would raise PF, and then check fold unless you hit your set? This, in my opinion, is terrible. Either limp or fold PF. You don't have the stack to be getting fancy with a crappy pair.

[AA suited]

sometimes i would bet 1/2pot even if i miss the flop to try to steal. then check/fold.

yeah, that will leave me short stacked if i folded, especially at lvl5. but then again, at lvl5, it's either all-in or fold anyway with &lt;10bb.

or is my view waaaaay wrong and i've been playing wrong strategy all this time, especially about it's all-in anyway on lvl5?????? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[tjh]

Thanks guys...

My thinking was..
pair is worth playing for a set.

Worth playing must be worth raising. Without a preflop raise it seems like you have little or no fold equity. Well that is what I think but probably not true.

Then once I was in the hand and it was two players and checked to me.. well I just had to try and steal.

Would it be acccurate to say that my mistake was the post flop all in and the preflop minraise was not that big of a mistake ?

Thanks...

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys...

My thinking was..
pair is worth playing for a set.

Worth playing must be worth raising. Without a preflop raise it seems like you have little or no fold equity. Well that is what I think but probably not true.

Then once I was in the hand and it was two players and checked to me.. well I just had to try and steal.

Would it be acccurate to say that my mistake was the post flop all in and the preflop minraise was not that big of a mistake ?

Thanks...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes the all-in on the flop is the bigger mistake, I still really don't like the minraise.

[Phoenix1010]

You should also realize that once you put so many chips in the pot and take a strong betting lead, you're no longer playing for a set. You're either raising for value or raising because you feel you can use position and aggression to steal. You have neither a valuable hand nor a good position to steal, and your minraise wasn't terribly aggressive. It's important to realize what you're raising for. If you hit your set, that's great, but that's not how you should be playing it if you're playing it strictly for set value.

-Phoenix