Over the top or will he fold enough times to make me a profit?

[Filip]

Figured i could make him fold alot of hands, was i wrong or?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

[RunDownHouse]

Waaaaaay over the top, especially at this level. After he calls the turn, he's not releasing any better hand. And nobody at 1/2 finds a fold on the river HU after being check/raised.

[spydog]

Check-fold the flop. You don't have to win every pot to be a good player, especially at 1/2.

[rwanger]

I say definately wrong. What hand is he raising you with on the flop that he will not call a bet from you on the river?

There is no draw on the flop, so you have to figure he has something, unless maybe he's trying to get really tricky and raise for a free card with a gutshot (KQ).

When you pair on the turn you now have a hand that can beat a bluff...so when he bets on the river it means:
A) he's completely bluffing, you call and win 1 extra bet
B) he has you beat, raising means you lose 1 extra bet when you are beat (2 if he reraises and you call), and you gain 0 bets when you have him beat because he probably folds to your raise (note: this assumes he will not make the bad play of betting a hand that is worse than yours, because from his perspective, you have shown strength and will not fold a hand that beats him if he has something like 77)

Aside from all that, you are definately behind in this hand, and you're playing limit hold em....you are not going to get a better hand to fold...only a worse hand will fold, and there is no point in raising to prove that, it only puts you at an unnecessary risk when you are beat.

[Fiddler]

[ QUOTE ]
Check-fold the flop. You don't have to win every pot to be a good player, especially at 1/2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, what he said. Practice value betting instead.

[krishanleong]

I just want to reinterate the fact that you completely wasted 4.5 BB here. Way to blow about 140 hands worth of earn in one hand.

Krishan

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to reinterate the fact that you completely wasted 4.5 BB here. Way to blow about 140 hands worth of earn in one hand.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

Being a PLO player this hardly makes me loose any sleep, since i am used to loose 2 buyins in 1 hand /images/graemlins/wink.gif

But did i really waste em? Didnt my play make wonders for my tableimage, are u sure i didnt profit from this play if we look at the rest of the time i spent on the table?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
140 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
140 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

We will simply have to agree to disagree on this.

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
Didnt my play make wonders for my tableimage?

[/ QUOTE ]

Table image means nearly nothing at 1/2. Your opponents are bad. Very bad. They don't pay attention to how you play. If you never made a pure bluff at 1/2 then you would be extremely close to ideal play at that level. You bluff at people who fold too much. At 1/2, they don't fold too much. They call too much. So, you must value bet when they call too much.

You should purchase Poker Tracker and start importing your hand histories. Search for posts in this forum regarding Starting Hands. I suspect that you are playing way too many hands and then playing those hands poorly postflop. This is a recipe for disaster at a level that you can easily beat simply by playing well preflop. Once you can play well preflop then you can work on postflop skills. When you can play well preflop and postflop at 1/2, then you can crush this game.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
140 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

We will simply have to agree to disagree on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand the effect variance has on your winrate at limit, especially short-handed limit hold'em. I'm losing sleep for 2 days after donating 4BB on a worthless Jo hand.

[PassiveCaller]

Honest to goodness I'm not sure what you're trying to pull with all these hands but your logic in these games is severly flawed from limping UTG to just spewing chips period.

You need to go back through the archives and do some total rethinking of your game then maybe you'll post some hands that aren't total losses like you have been.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm losing sleep for 2 days after donating 4BB on a worthless Jo hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 days if I'm running bad.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm losing sleep for 2 days after donating 4BB on a worthless Jo hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 days if I'm running bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys are wussies.

link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=headsup&amp;Number=2129315&amp;For um=,,,,All_Forums,,,,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=1&amp;Limit=25 &amp;Main=2129315&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=13284&amp;datera nge=&amp;newerval=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bod yprev=#Post2129315)

After missing an easy overcall that cost me 2BB in this thread I ate my left ear.

Krishan

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to reinterate the fact that you completely wasted 4.5 BB here. Way to blow about 140 hands worth of earn in one hand.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree that he completely wasted 4.5 BB here. I agree totally that his play in this hand had little chance of success. However, if one wants to add to their EV in the BB by strategically re-stealing at the right times, one has to experiment with plays to do this. I'm guessing that he learned a lot from this horrible play. FWIW lessons learned now, at lower limits, payoff dividends later on to put it succinctly.

[stir]

IMO, (after reading 3 of your hand posts) you are trying to apply concepts you found successful at PLO and tournaments. SH is a very very different game.

You need to rethink the lines you are going to take at a very fundamental level.