Settlers of Catan...

[BoxTree]

...is the greatest board game ever.

I asked this in the Dear Abby/Bison thread, but I figured I'd open it up to all of OOT: Why are the blue cards so terrible (assume you're playing 3-way with Cities and Knights and Seafarers)?

I mean, is there really any reason to place a city on an ore/coin hex (rather than a wood/book or sheep/cloth hex) at the start of the game?

[astroglide]

there are much better board games than settlers

[BoxTree]

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there are much better board games than settlers

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I'm listening....

[InchoateHand]

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there are much better board games than settlers

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I'm listening....

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Chutes & Ladders?
Candyland?

[Alobar]

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there are much better board games than settlers

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I'm listening....

[/ QUOTE ]

risk

[ceyoung]

stratego

[astroglide]

www.boardgamegeek.com (http://www.boardgamegeek.com)

before you suggest a better game make sure you have actually played settlers of catan folks. we're all aware that monopoly, risk, and uno exist.

[InchoateHand]

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we're all aware that monopoly, risk, and uno exist.

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uno isn't a board game though.

[Alobar]

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stratego

[/ QUOTE ]

damn, I havent played that in ages, that game kicked ass

[Alobar]

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www.boardgamegeek.com (http://www.boardgamegeek.com)

before you suggest a better game make sure you have actually played settlers of catan folks. we're all aware that monopoly, risk, and uno exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

so we are only allowed to mention obscure board games as being better then?

fine....clue

[InchoateHand]

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www.boardgamegeek.com (http://www.boardgamegeek.com)

before you suggest a better game make sure you have actually played settlers of catan folks. we're all aware that monopoly, risk, and uno exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

so we are only allowed to mention obscure board games as being better then?

fine....clue

[/ QUOTE ]

Clue is obscure?

[Alobar]

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[ QUOTE ]
www.boardgamegeek.com (http://www.boardgamegeek.com)

before you suggest a better game make sure you have actually played settlers of catan folks. we're all aware that monopoly, risk, and uno exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

so we are only allowed to mention obscure board games as being better then?

fine....clue

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Clue is obscure?

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it's no monopoly or anything, but I couldnt think of an obscure board game that was any good....there is a reason they are obscure (i.e. they suck)

[astroglide]

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it's no monopoly or anything, but I couldnt think of an obscure board game that was any good....there is a reason they are obscure (i.e. they suck)

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you're only allowed to mention games that are better than another game if you've actually played the subject game and thus have a basis for claiming something is better. the fact that he's playing settlers indicates that he's probably played through the well-known parker brothers fare and is moving onto more advanced things. your position on this whole issue is profoundly retarded. feel free to draw whatever most popular = best analogy you can think of for contrast.

[InchoateHand]

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you're only allowed to mention games that are better than another game if you've actually played the subject game and thus have a basis for claiming something is better. the fact that he's playing settlers indicates that he's probably played through the well-known parker brothers fare and is moving onto more advanced things. your position on this whole issue is profoundly retarded. feel free to draw whatever most popular = best analogy you can think of for contrast.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never played Dungeons & Dragons either but I'm pretty sure I'd rather play Chutes & Ladders.

[InchoateHand]

How about... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.neweyestudio.com/ebayG/ebg585.jpg

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
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www.boardgamegeek.com (http://www.boardgamegeek.com)

before you suggest a better game make sure you have actually played settlers of catan folks. we're all aware that monopoly, risk, and uno exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

so we are only allowed to mention obscure board games as being better then?

fine....clue

[/ QUOTE ]

Clue is obscure?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's no monopoly or anything, but I couldnt think of an obscure board game that was any good....there is a reason they are obscure (i.e. they suck)

[/ QUOTE ]

Clue can't be called obscure. They made a a fairly big budget move, Clue (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088930/), based on the game. Martin Mull was Col. Mustard. Christopher Lloyd was Prof. Plum. Madeline Kahn was Mrs. White. Those are reasonably big stars.

[InchoateHand]

Parcheesi is a pretty good game.

[Alobar]

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you're only allowed to mention games that are better than another game if you've actually played the subject game and thus have a basis for claiming something is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, i dont usually expect stuff this retarded to come from you. I have played the game, and therefore am qualified to say I like risk better.

Sorry if I'm not cool enough to be all elitist and ramble off some more stupid "advanced" games for you.

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your position on this whole issue is profoundly retarded. feel free to draw whatever most popular = best analogy you can think of for contrast.

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dude, go buy a bottle of distilled water and wash all that sand out of your vagina

[astroglide]

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there is a reason they are obscure (i.e. they suck)

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right, that's not elitism.

and it's very reasonable to assume that no good games have been developed in, say, the last 20 years.

if he's playing settlers with 2 expansions there's roughly a 0% chance that he isn't familiar with risk or clue.

[InchoateHand]

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dude, go buy a bottle of distilled water and wash all that sand out of your vagina

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Boom goes the dynamite!

[Dynasty]

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dude, go buy a bottle of distilled water and wash all that sand out of your vagina

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Boom goes the dynamite!

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It isn't working. You're putting it a good effort. But, it isn't working.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
...is the greatest board game ever.

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Not the greatest, but pretty damn spiffy. I disagree wholeheartedly with astroglide that there are games that are Much Much better, but at least he has a clue unlike the great unwashed masses here.

If you liked Settlers you might want to try Ticket to Ride, Puerto Rico, and Traumfabrik, and take it from there . . . my favorite games are probably Settlers (Cities & Knights expansion), Goa, Puerto Rico, Acquire, Traum . . . but there's lots of tasty stuff out there.

But it doesn't get much better than good ole Settlers /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[astroglide]

lots off OOP games there... traumfabrik is german and out of print but uberplay is making an english version this fall. goa is out of print now and rio grande hasn't announced a reprint yet, and the current hasbro/avalon hill version of acquire is reported to be the last print of it.

i caution to suggest specific games because discovering them can be really fun if you know what sort of things you like about the games you're already playing. starting with the top rated games is a reasonable start though. if he says what aspects of settlers he likes the most it would be easier to make recommendations.

[threeonefour]

I am really surprised nobody has submitted Chess as a better board game.

Chess is simply the best board game(i guess i better add the obligatory: and its not even close), and its not copyrighted or patented, which is a plus.

[astroglide]

chess is a pure abstract, it's 2 player only, and has a MASSIVE academic one-uppage aspect (read book, memorize openings = beat person who hasn't read book, memorized openings). i can totally understand its popularity but it's not at all similar to settlers.

this isn't an OOT best-of list, it's a dude asking for an opinion. you have to assume he knows about chess.

[astroglide]

some fun multi-player ones i would consider to be better: alhambra, amun-re, attika, citadels, edel stein & reich, fairy tale, goa, power grid, princes of florence, puerto rico, razzia, ticket to ride, and primordial soup.

[JMP300z]

al hambra and puerto rico are suhweet.

[jen]

Yes! I'm not the game aficionado that astroglide apparently is, but I love settlers too.

[GrekeHaus]

Anybody here ever play Munchkin? Not quite a board game, but very amusing.

[astroglide]

i'm a fan of settlers too. i own the "settlers of zarahemla" version which is a (lol) mormon-themed version. it doesn't actually change anything, it just calls the soldiers "stripling warriors" and that sort of thing. it also adds a "temple stone" 2-pointer similar to the longest road, except it's for the most stones contributed. they cost 1R/1B each.

the big advantage is setup time though. it has no expansions but it has an external board with static trading posts. the hexes are on 2-sided strips, so setting the game up involves placing 5 of them randomly and calling it a day. the numbers have letters on them and you place in alphabetic order starting on any random outer circle. HUGE reduction in setup time.

i never got into the settlers expansions (seafarers didn't add much for me, and c&k pushes the play time out too long for what the game is to me).

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/imagegallery.php3?gameid=6778 has pictures

[wacki]

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and it's very reasonable to assume that no good games have been developed in, say, the last 20 years.

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http://www.axisandallies.org/

[astroglide]

axis and allies is apparently 21 years old. /images/graemlins/smile.gif but i was being sarcastic in reference to alobar's assertion that non-huge games aren't popular because they aren't good. the games that everybody knows about (monopoly, uno, skip-bo, rook, clue, sorry, etc etc) are usually ancient. they were once obscure too, but were purchased and made popular before tv and video games went nuts.

general gamer opinion is that axis & allies is a superior game to risk as far as mainstream war games go. for hardcore war gamers there is an INSANE library of games from which to choose. the most common complaints leveled against risk are the dominance of australia on the standard map and excessive dice.

[jen]

Funny... a Mormons' Settlers! I'll have to try some of the other games you mentioned (if those are better).

After Settlers, I bought and tried playing Carcassonne (another award-winning German game) with my parents. Not the same caliber as Settlers, IMO. But it's good for them (less antagonistic, good for two), and my parents seem to be hooked.

[wacki]

how the [censored] do you know so much about gaming?

[astroglide]

what can i say, i am a gaymer.

commodore 64 games -> atari games -> nintendo games -> street fighter 2/mortal kombat -> magic: the gathering -> quake 3: arena -> poker -> warcraft 3 -> designer board/card games. many of those i played or play seriously. played sf2 hardcore and gambled on it, played magic hardcore and gambled on it (got ranked and invited to the pro tours but i couldn't afford to travel), played q3 hardcore (still play occasinoally), got into war3 as a first rts and play that on a fairly decent level (still play occasionally). designer board/card games are my newest and most active hobby.

i'm pretty competitive and i've always used some form of gaming as my outlet for it.

[smiely]

I've never played the actual Settlers board game, nor the expansions. But, for those who don't know, there's an online (http://settlers.cs.northwestern.edu/) version that's been around for at least 4 years now (well, I started playing 4 years ago, anyway). It's java-based, kinda slow, but free, and you can play with other people or with bots.

[astroglide]

trial version of msn's settlers games (http://zone.msn.com/en/root/deluxe.htm?code=110382390&genre=Cards&RefId=6610&S ession=&origin=pindex_mp_lnk&ln=en)

[BoxTree]

[ QUOTE ]
played magic hardcore and gambled on it (got ranked and invited to the pro tours but i couldn't afford to travel)

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Finkel is another Magic-player-turned-poker-player. If you know Finkel, you wouldn't be surprised to hear how well he's done at poker.

Link (http://www.sportscrew.com/pokerpages/poker_points.php?year=2005&month=03).

I never played in any Pro Tours, but a couple of my friends did. I'm a bit envious of their PT appearances in Chicago, New York, Tokyo, and Germany, but I beat Finkel in a HU ALIce match, so I have that small victory to enjoy. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif (BrowsePost NO GOOD against NecroHorror -- at least in that format.)

Back to board games...

Diplomacy >> Risk
Settlers >> Diplomacy

Clue is fine, too much luck.

Risk is excellent if you use variants that balance Australia and control some of the randomness of the dice.

In a room with the right seven people, Diplomacy is the best game ever created. But it's nearly impossible to find the right seven people, and one bad egg spoils the whole game. But most games of Diplomacy are excellent.

Settlers (with expansions) offers so many options at so many different points that it still stands at #1 on my list. The dice almost never seem to have any drastic effect on the result of the game. The game just seems to balance itself really well (except the blue cards just seem to suck too much).

Chess is too academic for me. I just don't have the patience to memorize hundreds and hundreds of "standard" plays. Backgammon is awesome (5-point matches are best).

Scrabble is fine, but it's annoying when you play against people who use words like "BRR" and "BRRR" (both are legal in Scrabble). That's not Scrabble. That's, "Look at me! I've memorized all of the two, three, and four-letter words that are legal in Scrabble!" Great.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
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there are much better board games than settlers

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I'm listening....

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Carcasonne (with expansions). Good for two, great for three or four.

[Paluka]

Puerto Rico is my favorite game. It rules. Ticket to Ride is extremely fun. boardgamegeek.com was a great suggestion.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Finkel is another Magic-player-turned-poker-player. If you know Finkel, you wouldn't be surprised to hear how well he's done at poker.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are probably 50 pro tour magic players who are poker pros at this point.

[TommyTutone]

Puerto Rico is the greatest game ever, although Amun Re has a soft spot in my heart because I've lost but once, maybe twice.

[Talex]

How about games that excel with three players? I find most multiplayer games don't really start to shine with less than four players, Settlers included. Not that it isn't fun, but the two on one aspect that occurs in a three player game once someone gets an advantage can be tiresome.

-Tim

[astroglide]

http://www.boardsandbits.com/proddetail.asp?prod=EdelSteinUndReichGer

i think any poker player would be able to get into that game. it's german, but the cards are language-neutral and all of the english translations are available at boardgamegeek. it's not a factor at all in deciding to purchase it. read the whole post here if you like games at all in addition to poker.

the goal of the game is to make the most money

you make money by having majorities in 4 different colored gems (all have different fixed values) at the end of the round, and are then forced to return half of anything you made a majority of to the reserve

each player has 3 action cards, 1 for money, 1 for gems, 1 for cards. each turn each player is given a face-up card that has a number for money and types of stones on it. one dude could get "2 green/5" and another could get "3 red/7" for example. a special card which will have a special action (such as allowing you to exchange a number of gems with an opponent of your choice).

everybody selects simultaneously what they want to do by picking an action card and revealing it to the other players. if they select an action and nobody else does, they take the action. if they picked gems, they take the number of gems shown on their card. if they take cash, they take the amount of money shown on their card. if they take the card, they take it and use it as allowed.

if 3 or more people pick the same action, nobody gets to do anything and you go to the next turn (flipping over new cards, etc).

the crux of the game is if 2 people pick the same thing. when this happens, the person with the lowest amount of the most valuable stones starts by bribing the other person. if the other person accepts the bribe, they take the gems offered to them and the briber gets to do the action they wanted to do. if they don't want to accept the bribe, they can raise them by either increasing the amount of gems or using the same number with higher value gems.

for example, a bribe of 1 blue is offered. dude raises by offering 2 blue. other dude reraises by offering 1 red 1 blue. dude accepts the bribe, takes 1 red 1 blue from the briber, and the briber gets to take the action he selected.

boardgamegeek.com obviously has info on it as well. it needs 3 players and plays excellent with 3-4. with more players you add another type of action card to avoid negotiation logjams. the basics of the game are bluffing/outguessing (selection of the actions) and negotiation.

[Grisgra]

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How about games that excel with three players?

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I like Acquire with three (less chance to be screwed) -- talking old rules Acquire, not the new weird crap -- and San Marco is a good 3-player, ditto Samurai, and Puerto Rico actually plays quite well with three (no Prospectors!).

[HesseJam]

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and it's very reasonable to assume that no good games have been developed in, say, the last 20 years.

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http://www.axisandallies.org/

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Good call. Good American game. There are many, many excellent board games out there and many of them have been developed in Germany. Somehow we Germans have a knack for this. A friend of mine collects board games and has 450 of them in the basement. Once a year there is a big board game fair in Essen where you can sell rare old out-of-production board games sometimes for a couple of hundred bucks. He scans the flea markets every weekend and gets those sometimes for 2 bucks. He made 20000 bucks on this over the last 5 years.

[Pocket Trips]

[ QUOTE ]
www.boardgamegeek.com (http://www.boardgamegeek.com)

before you suggest a better game make sure you have actually played settlers of catan folks. we're all aware that monopoly, risk, and uno exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

just went to this site to check out talisman because i used to love that game... well they want $200 for just the basic set....wtf?? i paid $40 for it back in the late 90's

[Skipbidder]

Settlers is pretty good. It's in my top five. Obviously it depends on your gaming circumstances (how long you have to play and who you are gaming with). It has a great characteristic that it can be played reasonably well (and quickly) by non-gamers.

Here are some games that I think are better:

Advanced Civilization. This has the problem that the rules are relatively complex and that it will take you a whole weekend to play.

Dune. The game was not being released in English anymore for some weird copyright reasons, but they reintroduced it in French instead. This has zero effect on game play. They include an English translation of the rules in the box.

Lord of the Rings. This game is the nuts. It's probably the only game I can think of that plays well with any number of players from 1 to 6. You can play it cooperatively (and yet it doesn't suck), or you can play with all players against one. You can adjust the difficulty at the start of the game.

[kgrad5]

I had to program settlers of catan for a class 2 years ago. Longest road is annoying.

[Yads]

I'm a huge fan of Samurai Swords (aka Shogun). That game really makes risk look like the dumb game that it is.

[The Armchair]

Your friends lost my road.

Bitch.

[ddubois]

Thats settlers.cs.northwestern.edu site isn't working for me. I downloaded a new Java, but the applet says cannot connect to server. Also, all the doc/FAQ/help pages all 404. Is it working for other people?

[Yads]

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Thats settlers.cs.northwestern.edu site isn't working for me. I downloaded a new Java, but the applet says cannot connect to server. Also, all the doc/FAQ/help pages all 404. Is it working for other people?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's cause you probably have to create an account first.

[ddubois]

Ah. Well, that page 404s too.

[GuyOnTilt]

Where's astrolglide?!!

Edit: Oh. There he is. Damn avatar change.

GoT

[schwza]

yes, that game is sweet. i play cities and knights (no seafarers), but here are some opinions re: colors.

- green (wood/paper): best cards by a decent margin, and the value of getting a resource card on any non-7 roll that misses you is often huge. some people who no access to paper will use trade to get this if they have few number cards covered. i guess the idea is that the relative crappiness of lumber makes up for this (including for building the crucial first knight), but i'm psyched when i can get a city on lumber.

cloth: sheep suck, but the cards aren't bad. the 2:1 commodity is somewhat valuable.

coin: mighty knights are somewhat valuable, but not great by any means. the cards suck. but ore is the most useful resource in the game, so i guess that's supposed to be the balance. to make blue cards suck a little less my friends and i changed the rules on the intrigue card so that you could kill a knight touching your road instead of just displacing it.

yes, i'm a dork.