How terrible is this?

[Lmn55d]

I was planning to call this down the whole way as I find a lot of people who bet out on flops like this have weak draws. How bad is the river raise? How bad is the call of the 3bet?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.70 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.70 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.70 BB

[seethe7seas]

KQ and QTs are really the only hands you beat on this flop. The coldcall could be 99+, AK, AJ, and you tie with AQ.

I'm more used to players pulling a c/r with draws. The BB simply betting out could be looking for some fold equity w AJ, a rare A9, and even 99 if he's a tricky one.

If your read is not that clear though, I think it's safe to call down. I am looking for a showdown here and a note on BB, at least for the time being. Save the river raises for later when, you know he will pay off with worse goods. And fold to the 3bet for sure.

[Lmn55d]

yea, I think if i'm not comfortable folding to a 3bet, then the river raise becomes significantly less attractive.

[kiddo]

Why are u not raising flop if u think he is on a draw?

Raise flop, take a freecard. Call his riverbet if u dont hit, fair chance he is stealing with that draw he maybe got.

Normally, I would say he is not on a draw because he knows u will not fold for 1 bet on flop so why bet? He got at least 1 pair, if he is good he will bet with a monster 2.

[Lmn55d]

I just thought I'd let him keep betting, plus what if he 3bets me with an OESD or something like that. I'd be forced to fold on turn. If I raised the flop wouldn't I want to bet turn to charge his draw and take free showdown?

[kiddo]

If u raise u will hit a pair on turn or river 1/4 so if u think there is a decent chance he got pair u should often take that free card (if u ask me, I know there are guys thinking u should play your overcards strongly).

[ QUOTE ]
what if he 3bets me with an OESD or something like that. I'd be forced to fold on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but what if u call all way with A high against a good hand drawing dead? I just dont believe in raising preflop and then calling all way with Ahigh even if there is a draw on flop. Better then call flop and fold turn if he bets again. Yes, he may be on a draw but he also may be on a set. If u dont want to raise somewhere u shouldnt call all way unless he is the kind of guy that will always bet.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
I was planning to call this down the whole way as I find a lot of people who bet out on flops like this have weak draws.

[/ QUOTE ]
1. There was a third player in the hand when BB bet the flop. That makes his bet more credible.

2. It is more likely that he flopped a pair than a decent draw.

3. Your queen overcard is seriously contaminated by proximity to the J9 on the board.

4. Your implied odds are terrible as the actual river action demonstrates. You aren't comfortable raising even when you make your hand.

A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif is pretty close to the worst possible PFR hand you could have for this flop. Virtually anything else would give you more prospects. Calling down here is tantamount to having a "never fold" policy.

It's OK to get bluffed once in a while. I'd just fold on the flop or turn without a contrary read.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are u not raising flop if u think he is on a draw?

Raise flop, take a freecard.

[/ QUOTE ]
We are assuming this player is aggressive enough to attack with a draw. Now you want to assume he will meekly give a free card when he has the best hand. That's not consistent.

The free card play in this situation usually leads to giving a free card when AQ is best and being 3-bet or stop-n-goed when we are actually drawing.