Teaching poker

[jwg152]

I believe that I can turn any player into a solid winner (more than 1k a week) after one week of tutoring. Does anyone believe that this possible? Or am I insane, foolish, naive, etc?

[blackize]

You are insane, foolish, and naive.

[Awesemo]

Well, there's just one condition then I would agree with you. They have to want to learn.

[Reef]

not insane, just foolish and naive

[jwg152]

Well, I shall attempt it in the near future. I'll let you know if you're right... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[blackize]

Thinkings you can produce results like that in a week is insane. It takes most players months to learn the game enough that they can even break even.

[Guthrie]

It might be possible with "a" player, but not "any" player.

[jwg152]

Are you one of those players?

[jwg152]

I agree. The player must possess average intelligence - at the very least, IMO.

[ScottC]

Intelligence aside, some people don't have the psychological makeup to play winning poker. That is very difficult to change, though not impossible, but not possible in a week IMHO.

[Prowler]

Looking for a volunteer?

I would be more than willing to participate in an experiment of this nature.

What do you have in mind?

[SNOWBALL138]

as far as I know, there are a number of top-ranked players who lost for months before they began to win. Bobby Baldwin and Howard Lederer are two examples that come to mind.

[olavfo]

If this is possible, you will soon become the richest teacher on this planet.

olavfo

[Pat D]

Where do i sign up for this experiment?

[oreogod]

Im a good listener, you can teach me.

[TStoneMBD]

id be quite surprised if you were earning 1k a week playing poker. how do you think you can teach somebody to earn more than yourself?

[jwg152]

Yes, I average well above 1,000 per week. By the way, 8 tabling low limit donks is not playing poker, it's running a casino. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PapiChulo503]

If you can truly do this and can support your claim with say 6months worth of data then you will be very succesfull. I would suggest writting an e-book and selling it on e-bay. Then have all of the succesfull students do an infomercial about how successful you made them in just weeks. Run your infomercial at odd hours of the night and your e-book will sell. Once thats done your on your way to making millions!!! You should be able to release your very own DVD with the trademark "as seen on tv" in the top right corner within months. After that you just have to wait for one of your players to win a WSOP event and you are set for life /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dogmeat]

I'm sure that many players could learn to win up to $1000 per week by multi-tabling games of low limit poker, especially if they play 50 hours per week - that's just $20 per hour..................

Of course, it would take an excellent player who was also an excellent teacher to pass on the teachings necessary in just seven days. Would you like to provide some pokertracker numbers (screenshot) that would lead us to believe you might be just such a player to pass on your knowledge, or do you just grind away?

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[jwg152]

I've started the process. If I'm wrong I will be the first one to admit it. I'm very excited about poker again...

[Shaman]

Who would make the ideal student? Can you give us his profile? How old? How intelligent? What gaming background? Etc.

[Prowler]

I may not be the "ideal student" but atleast I was available. I am just going to very briefly post who I am, why I am doing this and my feelings so far.

First of the mundane and irrelevant, I am a 25 yr. old male. I have an above average intelligence even though to be fair it hasn't been assessed by any standard measure in years. I am not strong mathematically but fairly competent. I have been playing and looking at poker seriously for about 3 months. While I have done a lot of reading and a lot of playing I had managed to eek out a profit but am far from comforatable with my level of play. I believe that with dedication and effort I have what it takes to be a top competitor.

In my original disscussion wtih Jwg152 I gave him some more background on myself and he asked a number of "what if" questions. At the end he said he really didn't agree with most of my answers and we would begin this experiment.

We began at the begining, what are ones options for playing the number 1 hadn in the number 1 position in the number 1 round of an SnG. What i found very helpful was that he stressed understanding and conceptualizing the reasons behind what one does as well as just the mechanics of it. Despite having read many posts, a nuber of books and a variety of sources I hadn't done this. I believed I had and just hadn't reaqched a level high enough for it to become innate but I hadn't. The process we followed today was truly a collaborative way to learn - Here's a situation, here's what I do. Here's why, what are the strengths and pitfalls, how is it similar/different from other situations we've been over. I was suprised at the number of basic concepts I knew that i didn't understand, and simply through disscussion of starting hands and the scenarios they could create some of these became clearer.

Following all of this I played a $10 SnG on party while Jwg watched. One of the first hands we had disscussed and on which we decided my strategy was floored was dealt to me on the 2nd hand. I made the play and low and behold it went exactly as predicted. Now I know this won't happen everytime but talk about positive re-affirmation. Finished the SnG placing 2nd and then we disscussed a couple of hands. He noted a potential leak in my game and I gave a very detailed explanation of my actions and why it was right. He said the logic was sound but... and gave a very detailed explanation of how he would look at the situation. I agreed.

We disscussed in broad strokes some short handed concepts and that was the end of the 1st day.

I am suprised at how much that I "knew" that just hadn't "clicked" or sunk in. Through long conversations (and many typos!) I know that I have a much firmer grasp on the game today than ever before. I was excited by the opportunity this presented at the outset, now I am excited by the process as well.

I would also like to thank JwgG for all of his help so far, he has been very generous with his time and knowledge and for that I can only say Kudos.

So everyone wish us luck and stay tuned!

[2ndGoat]

Let's see what it takes to clear 1k a week:
Let's be generous and say he's willing to play 40 hours. Let's not be fatuous and assume he'll play more than that.

So we need him at $25/hr. I don't think we can plop down our newbie in a 15/30 game and expect him to do anything but lose money, and I don't think we can have him 4-table either.

Really I think the best 99% of students could hope for right out of the gates is 1 BB/100 at two tables of 3/6. That's what, $6/hr in rakeback/whoring and about $8/hr in play, right? The other 1% may be able to handle 4 tables, or beat 10/20, or take 3/6 for 2.5 BB/100, but after teaching some people myself, I just don't see it as possible except if someone's got a rare natural talent.

I consider my intellect and temperment perfectly suited to poker and I lost money at it for 3 months after I started studying. I didn't have a tutor to bring me along, but regardless.. for the vast majority, I think starting out is tougher than us "seasoned" types remember.

Now if the test is "Can the newbie maintain 1k/week over 20 weeks?" then the chances skyrocket. After 2 months there are a lot of people that are going to be able to 4-table low limits and pass 1k/week by enough to catch up on whatever EV was missing in the beginning.

The other wrinkle is if you're sitting there "coaching" him for a significant portion of his play, then a lot of the decisions are coming from an outside source... the earth will shudder off its axis and a man in San Jose will turn into a lemur.

I wrote a post containing about 5 different thoughts, with no regard to organization, flow, or even coherency. Yay.

2nd