Staying on a T, 2-7

[thatpfunk]

$1/$2 Triple Draw 2-7
Powered by UltimateBet

SurferGirls is at seat 0 with $98.25.
LuvtodriveTT is at seat 1 with $120.
SP0NGE is at seat 2 with $91.25.
GiveUsYourFat is at seat 3 with $63.75.
thatpfunk is at seat 4 with $30.75.
GinzoPig is at seat 5 with $205.25.
The button is at seat 2.

GiveUsYourFat posts the small blind of $.50.
thatpfunk posts the big blind of $1.

thatpfunk: Ah 5c 2d 6c 6d
First Round:

GinzoPig folds. SurferGirls folds. TT folds. SP0NGE raises to $2. GiveUsYourFat calls. thatpfunk re-raises to $3. SP0NGE calls. GiveUsYourFat calls.

GiveUsYourFat takes 2 cards. thatpfunk takes 2 cards. SP0NGE takes 2 cards.

SP0NGE: -- -- -- -- --
GiveUsYourFat: -- -- -- -- --
thatpfunk: 5c 2d 6d Tc 3c

Second Round:

GiveUsYourFat checks. thatpfunk bets $1. SP0NGE calls. GiveUsYourFat calls.

GiveUsYourFat takes 2 cards. thatpfunk takes 1 card. SP0NGE takes 2 cards.

SP0NGE: -- -- -- -- --
GiveUsYourFat: -- -- -- -- --
thatpfunk: 5c 2d 6d 3c Ts

Third Round:

GiveUsYourFat checks. thatpfunk bets $2. SP0NGE calls. GiveUsYourFat calls.

GiveUsYourFat takes 1 card. thatpfunk stands pat. SP0NGE takes 1 card.


What do we think about standing pat and what is our river decision?

[timprov]

There's really little point in drawing here. I'd like it better if you could have gotten sponge out. In MP you may be stuck betting the river. Without sponge the river's mostly about your table image.

[DeathDonkey]

I wouldn't 3 bet predraw unless the button was fairly out of line and might draw 3 or every now and then get caught and take 4 or something. I play it the same after that. I would fold if SB bets the river, and check if he checks. If button bets and SB calls I think you can fold. If button bets and SB folds I think its a crying call but even then a fold isn't awful. If he is good I don't see you winning if he bets.

-DeathDonkey

[thatpfunk]

The button was routinely raising (when folded to) and then drawing 3.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
The button was routinely raising (when folded to) and then drawing 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, he was a bit of a fish.... but your 6 doesn't make me feel too comfortable out of position. I call and play on from there.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

PS: Staying pat here is a tough choice, since you are up against 2 players. I think I'd do the same, and check the river.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
The button was routinely raising (when folded to) and then drawing 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

As he should be.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The button was routinely raising (when folded to) and then drawing 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

As he should be.

[/ QUOTE ]

TD is the game where position matters more than any other I have ever played. Better to call, the raise is just putting in $$$ out of position.

PS: With one card to draw, I think I would have re-raised.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The button was routinely raising (when folded to) and then drawing 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

As he should be.

[/ QUOTE ]

TD is the game where position matters more than any other I have ever played.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why two to a wheel and the button is easily worth a raise. (Not to mention that some people will 3-bet you with crap like 3467.)

[mscags]

I think this is a tough decision. If you were heads up with position and you saw your opponent take one then staying pat is clearly the right choice, however according to SS2 against 2 opponents drawing 1 on the river (assuming they are drawing to a 7 or 8) a 9 and better is the favorite. Anything else that you would stay pat with will be an underdog against 2 opponents especially when you are in middle position. I think I would stay with a 9, but have to draw with a 10. What would happen if you stay pat and then the opponent behind you stays pat. What can you beat that he would stay pat with after you have already done the same? The answer is not a lot. I'm not an expert by any means at the game, but I hope this helps some.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
(Not to mention that some people will 3-bet you with crap like 3467.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I resemble that remark!

If I were going to open on the button it would of course be for a raise, but I'm not convinced drawing 3 to 2-5 or something is a good play if the blinds are definitely going to defend (which they tend to at the lower limits). If I can sometimes steal the blinds then I like it much better.

-DeathDonkey

[Chris Daddy Cool]

given that both your opponents are drawing two cards, i'd stay with the T and hope for the best, but if they've been drawing one like you i'd draw again. note that according to ss2, a 9 would be a favorite in a multiway pot, so standing pat on a T with both drawing two should be the right play as well.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
given that both your opponents are drawing two cards, i'd stay with the T and hope for the best, but if they've been drawing one like you i'd draw again. note that according to ss2, a 9 would be a favorite in a multiway pot, so standing pat on a T with both drawing two should be the right play as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Page #?? I didn't notice that statement in SS2... I'd like to read that paragraph again.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(Not to mention that some people will 3-bet you with crap like 3467.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I resemble that remark!

If I were going to open on the button it would of course be for a raise, but I'm not convinced drawing 3 to 2-5 or something is a good play if the blinds are definitely going to defend (which they tend to at the lower limits). If I can sometimes steal the blinds then I like it much better.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

If they both defend, then maybe. There's no defending standard for the BB that makes 2-5 on the button unraisable, though. If they're going to 3-bet you and draw to a bustbeater, it becomes even more obvious. It's actually a spot where it becomes in your favor to be a card or two behind.

[thatpfunk]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I haven't read SS2 (as TT can probably attest /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) as I like to get a feel for a game and a little cheap experience before I dive into study. Looks like I will be studying up soon.

All responses were helpful.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
It's actually a spot where it becomes in your favor to be a card or two behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Timprov, could you expand on this thought please? An example or two of spots like these would probably make it clearer to me, but I don't understand the benefit of being a card behind.

Thanks,
DeathDonkey

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's actually a spot where it becomes in your favor to be a card or two behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Timprov, could you expand on this thought please? An example or two of spots like these would probably make it clearer to me, but I don't understand the benefit of being a card behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty easy to explain in this case, I'm not sure how to generalize, though. Suppose you're the big blind, you've defended with 3467x, drawn one, and your opponent drew 2. Barring a miracle deuce, you're in a bad spot here -- you don't have much of a hand or much of a draw (any decent showdown hand is going to beat you unless you catch a deuce), but you're a card ahead. Either a check or a bet here is bad, because you're almost certainly a money dog even if he completely missed. Your only hope is to check and hope your opponent isn't perceptive enough to bet, and even then the free draw probably helps him more than it does you. If you bet based on being a card ahead, you'll often get raised when he improves, which is a disaster.

I guess the generalization is that it's beneficial to be a card behind really bad draws (if you have a good draw) because you get more action when you're a favorite to make a winning hand. 3467 isn't quite 5678 (which I've seen people draw to out of the blind, ick), but it's still pretty bad. Drawing to bustbeaters early is expensive.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the responses guys.

I haven't read SS2 (as TT can probably attest /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) as I like to get a feel for a game and a little cheap experience before I dive into study. Looks like I will be studying up soon.

All responses were helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you weren't that bad at all. You played far better than the average player at that table... but as you have discovered you had a few holes that need to be fixed.

PS: I have a few holes too!

TT