Have you seen these controlled maniacs around?

[callmedonnie]

In the 22's recently I've noticed a few people who play consistently within a certain style. They overbet. I've seen em move all in on the first hand. This led me to believe he was an idiot, but from watching he was selective enough to have a method. This type overbet pots, say bet 200 at 100 (not much of an overbet), 300 at 75, or 500 at 100, etc. I have also seen them move in for 2,000 when blinds are 25/50 and there are only two people and 125 chips in the hand. All of these observations come from a variety of players, so they are not specific to one but the patterns are the same.

How do you deal with them? They make moves like these at times when it seems overtly obvious that it is a steal. It is almost tempting to push.

I was annoyed at having to fold KQ off in the small blind w/ this guy on the button. He put me all in, but I had too many chips and it was too early to take this risk.

Anyway, my basic strategy is wait for a hand. If you know he's gonna move way beyond the pot, let him. It's a juicy payoff, even if you only steal his raise. I happened to not have any hands or confrontations with these guys as of yet.

I noticed that two of were at the same seat but I leave this for coincidences.

Has anyone else seen the controlled maniac?

[Bigwig]

I've noticed something similar at the $50's lately. Guys who overbet the pot significantly with draws. Like 3X the pot.

Try and trap them. That's what I do to any overly aggressive opponent. Wait till I'm pretty sure I've got them beat, then let them bet into you. It's fun.

[hyde]

[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed something similar at the $50's lately. Guys who overbet the pot significantly with draws. Like 3X the pot.

Try and trap them. That's what I do to any overly aggressive opponent. Wait till I'm pretty sure I've got them beat, then let them bet into you. It's fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is a special joy in trapping them isn't there /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I love'em

[Turk]

Yes I have seen them in the 22's and the 11's as well. I have been too quick to throw a "BIG FISH" label on them in some cases early on, only to watch them still there past the bubble, or see them at another table in a couple days playing it pretty tight.
Seems to me it is often a ploy, to get those paying attention to the play of their opponents to improperly judge their play and make mistakes based on that wrong info.
But definately a different breed from the foot to the floor maniac.

[Nottom]

I had some guy open push for 2K from UTG last night with 15/30 blinds. I picked up KK in the BB, called him, and doubled up to 3700 against his 88.

That's basically whats eventually going to happen to these guys most of the time.

Of course sometimes they have the nuts so watch out. I've seen a lot of AAs played this way recently. And I've been known to overbet pots on the river after catching something like a straight or a set after little postflop action with pretty good success.

[callmedonnie]

about what expected. I just wait to trap too. It's just weird. Maybe its a coincidence but I've seen this new advent of maniac only in the past few days. It is a calculated madness, which makes it even more fun to take their chips. In the long run, I don't see how that kind of play is profitable. It's an inverse of adage about aces: instead of winning a small pot and losing a big pot, you win little pots and lose big pots. Mostly, of course.

[viennagreen]

there is a big difference between betting 200 when the pot is 100 and raising T2000 a preflop pot of 125.

overbetting a pot a *reasonable* amount in the early rounds is frequently a very good and logical move.

folding a KQo is nothing to be annoyed about.

[Messy_Jesse]

Haha- I admit it- I am one of those "BIG FISH"... but there is method to my madness... (btw, haha im not a fish- ill show you my spreadsheet /images/graemlins/wink.gif) Anyways, heres the situation: I have the nuts, or something close enough to it that I am positive that I have the best hand, and I put another player on middle or top pair- making a standard 75 chip bet into a pot of 75 simply isnt worth it, since he is likely to fold, and even if he does call, it is only 75 chips. BUT, if I bet 300, many times they will identify this as a bluff, call with their middle pair, or top pair weak kicker, and then react with dismay when I flip over top set or top two pair- its a lovely maneuver that I have found works in the long run, especially against observant and solid players, who think I am making a standard bluff with nothing.

Anyone have any comments on this? Maybe the guys you all are talking about are different, but I emulate their style in order to get paid off by semi-solid players.

Jess

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
(btw, haha im not a fish- ill show you my spreadsheet )

[/ QUOTE ]
***** Hand History for Game 1877991003 *****
30/60 TOURNEYTEXASHTGAMETABLE (NL) (TOURNAMENT 11201975) - MON APR 11 01:33:43 EDT 2005
Table Table 13941 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Seat11 (870)
Seat 2: Messy_Jesse (760)
Seat 3: sxxxme (1930)
Seat 4: Bubbarig (500)
Seat 5: Russel91 (1135)
Seat 7: LittleVinceT (290)
Seat 8: hawk1965 (685)
Seat 9: CNakMac (1245)
Seat 10: mdk23 (585)
Seat11 posts small blind (15)
Messy_Jesse posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Seat11 [ 2d, 8c ]
sxxxme folds.
Bubbarig folds.
Russel91 folds.
LittleVinceT folds.
hawk1965 folds.
CNakMac folds.
mdk23 raises (60) to 60
Seat11 folds.
Messy_Jesse calls (30)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ah, 5h, Ts ]
Messy_Jesse checks.
mdk23 bets (100)
Messy_Jesse raises (200) to 200
mdk23 calls (100)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Kd ]
Messy_Jesse checks.
mdk23 checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ Kc ]
Messy_Jesse checks.
mdk23 bets (300)
Messy_Jesse calls (300)
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1135
Board: [ Ah 5h Ts Kd Kc ]
Seat11 balance 855, lost 15 (folded)
Messy_Jesse balance 200, lost 560 [ Tc Ac ] [ two pairs, aces and kings -- Ac,Ah,Kd,Kc,Tc ]
sxxxme balance 1930, didn't bet (folded)
Bubbarig balance 500, didn't bet (folded)
Russel91 balance 1135, didn't bet (folded)
LittleVinceT balance 290, didn't bet (folded)
hawk1965 balance 685, didn't bet (folded)
CNakMac balance 1245, didn't bet (folded)
mdk23 balance 1160, bet 560, collected 1135, net +575 [ 3s Ks ] [ three of a kind, kings -- Ah,Ks,Kd,Kc,Ts ]

Sorry this was kind of mean of me, but I say with sincerity that you have some things to learn if you want to improve. Perhaps you were on tilt and running scared or scared not to get paid off, but you really need to push this edge instead of hollywooding around here with a megar 2pair on a 2flush board.

[Messy_Jesse]

Haha thanks for the tip. But, I didn't say "I'm great...blah blah blah" or "I don't make mistakes" or "My game is perfect.". I said that I'm not a fish-- I was referring to the OP's comment about these guys being fish. So, I repeat: Im not a fish. Thanks for the help though /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

P.S. I'm not sure of my exact thinking, but I probably put this guy on an ace (wrongly), miniraised to build the pot, then checked the turn so that he might take my miniraise as a bet, and then pay me off on the river. Maybe not the correct move, but not completely unreasonable either.

[stupidsucker]

Tell me what hands are folding to your all in that your minraise is keeping in that benifit you?

I appologize for my delivery, but you are going to have to trust me or dont listen to me at all. Almost any hand you play against would thank you for being so nice. Check-minraising the flop was nice, but checking the turn was downright saintly of you.

[SNOWBALL138]

checking the turn makes him look weak. It can be a good way to induce a bluff, or to induce a weak hand to call...

No one can deny that there are definite downsides to this play too, but thats what poker is: weighing the pros and the cons. Its stupid to throw the pros out the window, and focus on the cons, or vice versa.

I think in this particular hand, the turn should have been bet though, and maybe even pushed. If he has AK, AQ, he will call. If he has a flush draw then slowplaying means that the only action you can get is BAAAAAD action.
So, I agree here with you.