Isolation play

[flopwell]

I've only been at the table for 10 or so hands, but it is your typical loose table. Villian is in at least 50 percent of hands, and will show some PF aggression (raised at least 4x, though I have yet to see what he had-table is passive postflop and will lay down to aggression.) UTG and UTG+1 are very loose/passive. I raised this to buy the button and maybe fold out one of the blinds......

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero...

as I said, villian is capable of PF aggression. Not sure what to make of the limp-rr, though.... only question in my mind is to cap or just call....

[the_rookie]

I don't see raising after three limpers as an isolation play. QJs is the lowest hand I'd raise in this situation.

In light of that I think a preflop limp is fine.

Maybe others will think driving out the blinds would be a reason to raise.

[ArturiusX]

Call, and trap the other limpers for another bet.

Edit: I dont raise QTs here, I limp cheaply looking for a favourable flop.

[Shillx]

raised this to buy the button and maybe fold out one of the blinds......

Yeah buying the button is a good thing. You are also making this play for value. Against 3 loose players and the blinds you figure to have a sizeable equity edge with this hand. You also take the lead which will help you take down the pot should everyone miss the flop.

Brad

[flopwell]

yah, you have a point about isolation play.......I guess I just couldn't think of a subject. I think though, that this is a good raise, if you can buy the button and fold out small blind. UTG and UTG1 are very loose/passive and will call with any 2.

[Shillx]

I don't see raising after three limpers as an isolation play. QJs is the lowest hand I'd raise in this situation.

Are we going back to Lee Jones fit or fold poker here? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

You should be raising 98s in this spot against loose players. In theory you also have an edge with 87s but it is close. With 76s you no longer have an edge and you should limp.

Brad

[milesdyson]

This is a good preflop raise, but I don't see much use in capping his limp reraise, especially as an "isolation raise," as none of those limpers are folding now.

[the_rookie]

[ QUOTE ]
Are we going back to Lee Jones fit or fold poker here?

You should be raising 98s in this spot against loose players. In theory you also have an edge with 87s but it is close. With 76s you no longer have an edge and you should limp.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never read Lee Jones book. I got SSH, I'll check to see if the book mentions this... /images/graemlins/smile.gif My PFR after 18,000 hands is 9.95, maybe I could hit the tens if I started raising these hands. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Taking the lead in the hand is important as well, and I can see the reasoning then for raising this hand. I'll have to start incorporating hands like these into my arsenel.

I love missing the flop, but still taking down the hand with unguarded aggresion...

[Shillx]

My PFR after 18,000 hands is 9.95

If you don't mind me asking...how do you get your PFR so high if the worst hand you will raise after 3 loose limpers is QJs?

Brad

[the_rookie]

I'm not sure how it got so high. I know I do a lot of open raising from Middle raising with hands as bad as JQo. I raise small pocket pairs against 1 limpers to isolate.

Middle pairs I will raise against 2, but 3 I tend to shy away from. A7s and up I'll raise agaist a few limpers.

More than anything I just think I isolate a lot of early and middle postion limpers (max 2).

It's hard to answer the question "what hands do you raise with" because it depends on the sitiation. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Greg J]

I usually just call here, but the initial preflop raise is fine too. A cap would be foolish.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a good preflop raise, but I don't see much use in capping his limp reraise, especially as an "isolation raise," as none of those limpers are folding now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, in general, I don't think you want to be HU against a LRR'er with QTs, as more often than not, I see villain turn over AA/KK/QQ here. You want this to be a multi-way pot.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good preflop raise, but I don't see much use in capping his limp reraise, especially as an "isolation raise," as none of those limpers are folding now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, in general, I don't think you want to be HU against a LRR'er with QTs, as more often than not, I see villain turn over AA/KK/QQ here. You want this to be a multi-way pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, you won't get it heads up, and in my opinion, a guy limp-reraising from MP2 doesn't have AA-QQ more than 50% of the time.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good preflop raise, but I don't see much use in capping his limp reraise, especially as an "isolation raise," as none of those limpers are folding now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, in general, I don't think you want to be HU against a LRR'er with QTs, as more often than not, I see villain turn over AA/KK/QQ here. You want this to be a multi-way pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, you won't get it heads up, and in my opinion, a guy limp-reraising from MP2 doesn't have AA-QQ more than 50% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sample size is obviously quite small, as I have probably seen under 20 limp-reraises. The only hands I have ever seen turned over have been AKs and QQ-AA, and one JJ. This is excluding the times when guys are down to about 3-4BB, and realize they will be all-in, so they just send the last of their money in with J8s and stuff like that.

What hands have you seen limp-reraisers play? I'm starting to like them doing this because it is a dead giveaway to their hand. I usually don't fold anyways, because I don't trust that they have it just because they LRR'ed. I am probably going to start folding my weak top pairs and such on flops though if I start to see this a lot more.

So yea, out of curiousity, what else do you see LRR?

[Entity]

This is such a fugging unbelievably easy raise here. It's a value raise, not an isolation rasie. Buying the button is nice too.

I'd usually call his 3-bet but sometimes I'd cap.

Rob

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
This is such a fugging unbelievably easy raise here. It's a value raise, not an isolation rasie. Buying the button is nice too.

I'd usually call his 3-bet but sometimes I'd cap.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I totally agreed with the original raise, but I am only calling the 3-bet, and if I hit top pair, I'm playing somewhat cautiously.

[milesdyson]

Pocket pairs and suited connectors, not to mention any other limping or raising hand - but that's not really the point. A UTG limp reraise at a full table has a much higher likelihood of being a big pair than an MP2 limp reraise at an 8-handed table.

I'd say this specific limp reraise is usually closer to a limping hand than a 3-betting hand.