AJo level 3

[CheckFold]

$33 at level 3 25-50 blinds, 5 remaining, all spread between 1200-2000, me at the short end with 1200. I'm in bb and get AJo. 2 limpers, sb completes, what's the best way to proceed?

[lehighguy]

Tricky. Have any of the people shown they will limp with monsters?

[EverettKings]

I pop it to 250 here. 5 handed with only a 50 BB the limpers don't scare me, and there are 200 chips for the taking right now. Making a nice sized raised here will almost always win you the pot, and getting to a flop heads up won't kill you.

Checking it in is OK, but you'll likely either miss and forfeit the 200 chip pot, hit the flop and take it down with a bet (earning you the same as taking it preflop), or hit, bet, get called, and either win a few more chips or lose a LOT more.

Things are simpler and less dangerous if you take it down up front, but that's just me.

-Kings

[Voltron87]

Raising here is a bad play with so many players in. Check. If you check and take a flop this hand should be very easy to play. If you hit an A or J, you play it, if you don't, you fold. Raising from EP with a marginal raising hand like AJ is not easy to play right.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising here is a bad play with so many players in. Check. If you check and take a flop this hand should be very easy to play. If you hit an A or J, you play it, if you don't, you fold. Raising from EP with a marginal raising hand like AJ is not easy to play right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking here is a bad play IMO. Checking here and playing a flop out of position is not easy to play right. What do you do when the flop comes QJ8, two suited? AKK? KJ9? If it comes Axx or Jxx the most likely result is you taking it down with a bet (this yields the same result as taking it down preflop). Sometimes QJs gives you a few chips but sometimes set 6s or a JT two pair takes all of yours.

To check here is to allow worse hands a cheap shot to outflop you. There's 200 chips up for grabs. I want them and I want them now

-Kings

[CheckFold]

The check and see flop is how I played it. It just felt wrong because I thought there was a great chance that I had the best hand, but on the other hand the pot wasn't quite large enough and I wasn't quite desperate enough to commit to committing a lot of chips.

If I raised to 250 and get called I pretty much have to lead even a missed flop with either a push or another 250 that will cripple me if I don't get the fold.

These players hadn't necessarily shown the tendency to limp with monsters, but I definitely wouldn't put it past them, and AQ, mid pp would definitely be likely limp candidates.

[Voltron87]

if you raise and one of those bad flops come up then what?

You're out of position and AJ is not exactly the nuts.

[Raiser]

I used to check here until I read this POST (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=1997018 &Forum=,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=5& Limit=25&Main=1997018&Search=true&where=&Name=8271 &daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&olderty pe=&bodyprev=#Post1997018). Now I like a raise here.

[Phil Van Sexton]

Check.

[Newt_Buggs]

I think its too early to make a play by raising with a marginal hand. If it were level 4 and there was 400 in the pot, I think this would be an easy push, but a raise right now will probably get you called and have you end up commiting a lot more chips than you want with AJ.

[Raiser]

Crap. I just used your "Level 3 ramblings" post as an argument for a raise. I suck.

Care to explain why this is a check so that I can get better.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Voltron87]

1. You're out of position.
2. AJo is a marginal hand.

I imagine those two facts will play into Phil's reasoning somehow.

[Raiser]

I guess I look at those reasons as an argument for trying to win the pot preflop.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to check here until I read this POST (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=1997018 &Forum=,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=5& Limit=25&Main=1997018&Search=true&where=&Name=8271 &daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&olderty pe=&bodyprev=#Post1997018). Now I like a raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm. I was afraid of this. Read that post again. I only recommended raising from the blinds with a small stack (and, in that case, I said to push).

I recommended raising to 200 from the button with a bigger stack (like 1200) and only 2 limpers. Raising from the blinds with 1200 and only 5 players left is not what I had in mind.

[Raiser]

Thanks Phil.

Well it's still a hell of a post even if I did f up the reference.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Crap. I just used your "Level 3 ramblings" post as an argument for a raise. I suck.

Care to explain why this is a check so that I can get better.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see your post until I already voted. I think a raise to 200-250 is bad, as Voltron has already explained.

I don't mind a push here, but I think it's a bit risky with 3 big stacked limpers. Since there are only 5 people left and the blinds are only 25/50, I don't see the need to risk a nice 1200 stack at this point. You have plenty of time.

The nice thing about level 3 is that you are in a good spot to double-up if you flop an A or J. The pot is big, so it will be hard for the big stacks to get away if they flop something too. Therefore, I like to check and see what happens.

If you miss the flop, there are too many people in the pot to take a stab at it. Just let it go.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising here is a bad play with so many players in. Check. If you check and take a flop this hand should be very easy to play. If you hit an A or J, you play it, if you don't, you fold. Raising from EP with a marginal raising hand like AJ is not easy to play right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking here is a bad play IMO. Checking here and playing a flop out of position is not easy to play right. What do you do when the flop comes QJ8, two suited? AKK? KJ9? If it comes Axx or Jxx the most likely result is you taking it down with a bet (this yields the same result as taking it down preflop). Sometimes QJs gives you a few chips but sometimes set 6s or a JT two pair takes all of yours.

To check here is to allow worse hands a cheap shot to outflop you. There's 200 chips up for grabs. I want them and I want them now

-Kings

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the most dangerous hand to play in the most dangerous level of a sng....your thinking is entirely wrong here. there really are only a few safe flops holding aj in this position (ajx, jxx, aax, jjx, kqt). if a flop like say qj9 comes what is your plan? or what about kj6, ak5, or akq? the proper way to play it is to check and let someone else bet it for you if you hit. further more, the 200 chips that are "up for grabs" are = to 1 big blind in 2 levels. there will be a much better situation in which you can be aggressive if you are patient.

[AliasMrJones]

You're out of position here with a marginal raising hand and lots of limpers. I like a check.

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do when the flop comes QJ8, two suited? AKK? KJ9? If it comes Axx or Jxx the most likely result is you taking it down with a bet (this yields the same result as taking it down preflop).

[/ QUOTE ]

These are pretty easy answers 4-handed after you check. QJ8 -- Check/fold, AKK -- bet/back off if called, KJ9 -- check/fold, Axx or Jxx -- bet. Also, a bet of 100-150 after getting a favorable flop will probably take down the pot whereas preflop you're suggesting raising 250 to take down the 200 chips up for grabs. The pot odds are obviously much more favorable with the smaller flop bet when you get a nice flop.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind a push here

[/ QUOTE ]

betting 1200 to win 200 seems rather silly to me.