AJ flops overcards

[coinflip]

PartyPoker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero ...

[istewart]

I tend to fold in this spot, but it's somewhat dependent on the flop bettor.

[zuluking]

Not enough info on the other players to make an informed decision.

[Dave G.]

The pot is big and I have odds to call for my overcards, so I'd rather not fold.

Since I'm continuing, raising is better than calling. I might be able to thin the field a little with a raise, and possibly earn myself a free card on the turn if I need it.

[jrz1972]

Fold. Your overcards are only ~3 outs or so, you have no backdoor draws, and you don't know that it isn't getting check-raised behind you.

I would probably have bet this myself if it were checked to me (might pick up the pot here or on the turn, might have the best hand, might get a free look at the river), but once villian leads off it is pretty clear that I am not ahead and I am not going to be able to easily pick this up.

[Entity]

I fold here.

[ajrenni]

I think you have to fold - no backdoor draws, and your outs have to be heavily discounted,(a) for the possibility of the flush, (b) for the possibility of reverse domination, and (c) because a Jack might give someone a redraw - basically what you said in your question.

- Andy

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
I have odds to call for my overcards,

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't. Add in some sort of backdoor draw and you would have the odds to continue.

[Mister Z]

I'm folding. Pot's multi-way and there's way too much coordination on the board to continue.

[coinflip]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding seems to be taking the early lead /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If we hold the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif does that change people's minds? How about J/images/graemlins/spade.gif instead? How about if the flop is rainbow?

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding seems to be taking the early lead /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If we hold the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif does that change people's minds? How about J/images/graemlins/spade.gif instead? How about if the flop is rainbow?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we hold the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif I'm definitely continuing. With the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif I'd be a little more reluctant too, but it does help.

[Dave G.]

Ah I was overvaluing the overcards by not accounting for the 2 flush on the board. My bad.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding seems to be taking the early lead /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If we hold the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif does that change people's minds? How about J/images/graemlins/spade.gif instead? How about if the flop is rainbow?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we had the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif my vote would change from "fold" to "raise."

The J /images/graemlins/spade.gif makes the decision close, but still a fold IMO.

[parappa]

I fold. I have raggy overcards on a coordinated board.

[atnels]

Say our holding does include the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. We raise, and it's folded to the bettor who calls. The third spade falls on the turn (not the J), and it's checked to us. Is the correct line to check behind and see what the river brings, or bet out? What if the turn was the J/images/graemlins/spade.gif? Does that make a difference?

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Say our holding does include the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. We raise, and it's folded to the bettor who calls. The third spade falls on the turn (not the J), and it's checked to us. Is the correct line to check behind and see what the river brings, or bet out? What if the turn was the J/images/graemlins/spade.gif? Does that make a difference?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we had the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif and a third spade fell on fourth, and it was checked to us, I'm checking. If the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif falls on fourth, I'm most likely betting.

[DeathbySuckout]

I have the hardest time with this type of hand. I am currently folding AJo, along with AQo and AKo if I don't hit the flop and get bet into. If it's checked to me, I bet. Is this wrong? I'm also folding AKs, AQs &amp; AJs if I don't hit a suited card(or any card that helps) on the flop, and get bet into. Am I losing more money folding than I am by calling and hitting the turn or river?

[HajiShirazu]

I would fold. With a spade I would call/raise, if the board was 9 5 2 I might also see a turn.

[atnels]

For me, the decision totally depends on my reads. At Party .5/1 where I play most of the time, it seems like every table has at least one LAG who LOVES (like, nearly 100% of the time) to bet out on any board into anyone who raised preflop. So, if you raise one such limper in MP w/ AKo and it's folded to the LAG who calls, then the flop comes rainbow rags and you get bet into, you have to look at your odds. In dinky pots it's not worth calling down with AK just to have him show 48o that paired the 4 on the turn. However, there are many times you'll be closing the flop action for one bet in a 4-5 BB pot and easily have the odds to draw to two overcards.

If the player has shown the tendancy to take stabs at pots but then dump to agression and you have position, it may be worth raising the flop and betting the turn to see if you can induce a fold. If I ran a play like this and got a call on the turn, I'd check behind unimproved.

Of course, on the other hand when you get bet into by some tighty who's been check/folding flops for 100 hands, then you might want to re-evaluate how many outs you're assigning to each overcard.