Making the Jump....33 to 55

[Degen]

Ok I think i'm ready.

I've been playing the Party 33's almost exclusively for a long while now and I think i'm ready to take the leap up to the 55's. I've taken several stabs but most of them have been losing sets. Though over the last few days I've played several sets and have been winning much more than my fair share, so I'm starting to get over my jitters and feel comfortable at the table.

I've done a great deal of searching here on the topic as well as asking specific posters and so far as I can tell these are the key differences:

Should be limping w/ all PP's from any position
Should start stealing later (blinds 100-200 or later)
Should steal less often as players are better and will likely call a lot more.
Same tight-passive strategy first couple rounds.


Anything else???



Wish me luck!!!!


Degen

[Degen]

bumpsky


Degen

[Scuba Chuck]

Dude,

200 more chips no problem
Difference between your ears
$55s play like $22s

Scuba

[Degen]

"Difference between your ears"

haha i sure hope so...i'm awful glad to hear that, but aren't you a 33er too? or did u make the jump?

Degen

[Scuba Chuck]

have already logged the following this month.

215 $33s
148 $55s

Intend to do the remainder of the month at the $55s. ~500+ more. (Unless I move all the way up to the $109s)

[spentrent]

"Difference" as 3 syllables is questionable, Scuba.

Suggestion: "Diff'rence" + one word.

Love,
Haiku Police

[Degen]

awesome...good luck and please let us know how it goes

Degen

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
have already logged the following this month.

215 $33s
148 $55s

Intend to do the remainder of the month at the $55s. ~500+ more. (Unless I move all the way up to the $109s)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Scuba, I didn't know you'd made the jump. Congrats, and I hope it continues to go well for you (since I'll hopefully be bugging you for tips in a few months... /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude,

200 more chips no problem
Difference between your ears
$55s play like $22s

Scuba

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think so? A winning player at $22 will be able to beat the $55s also?

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
have already logged the following this month.

215 $33s
148 $55s

Intend to do the remainder of the month at the $55s. ~500+ more. (Unless I move all the way up to the $109s)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Scuba, I didn't know you'd made the jump. Congrats, and I hope it continues to go well for you (since I'll hopefully be bugging you for tips in a few months... /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, me too.

Df, how many $22s do you expect to play before trying the $33s?

[Maulik]

How long has the transition been from
$11s -- > $22s/$33s --> $55s
clearly its different for everyone else [insert disclaimer].

k for kosher.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think so? A winning player at $22 will be able to beat the $55s also?


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know. The $22s seem so long ago. I'm just saying they "feel" like the $22s. The early play is very loose, and the play from blinds 200/400 is funny to watch.

[ QUOTE ]
How long has the transition been from
$11s -- > $22s/$33s --> $55s
clearly its different for everyone else [insert disclaimer].


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't remember for sure. Here's what I remember.

I began following the Aleoguide in late November 2004. Began recording stats in the Aleo spreadsheet on Dec 4, 2004. Played mostly $10+1s in December. Transitioned to $20+2s in late December. December SNGs ~ 400+. In January played $11s, $22s, $33s, and some $55s. January was a very difficult month for me. My worst month since I began playing. Even during a very rough patch during January, I had threatened to return to the $11s, but a 2+2 friend of mine convinced me that my bankroll was just too big to play that low (it was about $1300 at that time, all from playing SNGs). January SNGs ~525+. February, began studying folding equity concepts, had my best month. Mostly played $33s, some $22s (from Noon to 2PM CST). February SNGs 308. March, just an okay month, but only played $33s for the entire month. In March, I moved away from folding equity, and began focusing more on hand probabilities. March SNGs ~ 500. Now it's April. My goal is to put in 1,000 SNGs this month. I'm back to focusing on folding equity. As long as the ROI remains positive, I will remain on the $55s.

So to answer your question, just a few hundred games at each.

[ColdestCall]

[ QUOTE ]
"Difference" as 3 syllables is questionable, Scuba.

Suggestion: "Diff'rence" + one word.

Love,
Haiku Police

[/ QUOTE ]

Take five syllables
Next add a line of seven
Five more makes haiku.

and, while I'm at it...

Limping pokcet pairs
EP in the fifty-fives
Is overrated.

-Coldest Call
who started doing this haiku thing as an attention getting ploy after a number of serious posts were roundly ignored...

[Degen]

I started at the 22's because the 11's I couldn't take seriously because of the low payouts/buy-in.

I was at the 22's for about a day before I realized that the 33's were the exact same game. I've been at the 33's for about a year taking occasional stabs at the 55's, 109's and 215's.

Degen

[Degen]

I can say this with absolute certainty: A winning player at the 22's can instanly make 50% more money by moving up to the 33's.

Degen

[1C5]

Chuck, how did your play at the later levels with 4-6 players left change when you went from focusing on FE to hand prob and back to FE?

Just by guessing I would say that by focusing more on FE you will push any 2 or weaker 2 than you would have if you had been focusing on hand prob?

[Scuba Chuck]

Focus more on FE. It was a good learning experience with hand probabilities. And it has really helped me understand how to play shortstacked better, when I don't have FE. But avoiding this situation is smarter.

[1C5]

Because...if you are short with no FE, you HAVE to double up just to survive which is often a losing proposition right?

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been at the 33's for about a year

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO, it doesn't make sense to quantify your past experience based on time, but more on number of games played. If you played 100 SNGs over a year, it's no comparison to someone who's played 2,000 in 4 months.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Because...if you are short with no FE, you HAVE to double up just to survive which is often a losing proposition right?

Post Extras


[/ QUOTE ]

The more you study how to do the $EV math, the more it helps to understand FE (as well as table observation and stacksize inventory). Essentially, you need to judge what hand value you're waiting for to do battle with. That's based on how many hands you're willing to wait and see. The probability of getting called is so high, I'm just looking for someone to be my ATM.

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
I can say this with absolute certainty: A winning player at the 22's can instanly make 50% more money by moving up to the 33's.

Degen

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people agree with you, others (Irie, etc) do not.

[Degen]

"If you played 100 SNGs over a year, it's no comparison to someone who's played 2,000 in 4 months."

agreed


I'll restate...i played < 25 33's per week for roughly six months...then > 250 per month for six months...and now i'm moving up


i murdered the 55's today by the way...i agree that a lot of it was between my ears, though i've made some adjustments, namely slowing down with the steals late.

In the 33's i was stealing (correctly) 50-75% of opportunities once the blinds hit 100-200, in the 55's (so far) i do it only when the blinds are 150-300 or bigger, and then only 25% of the time or less. unless i'm a small stack that is.

sound like proper adjustment? or just timid play? its been working today so far, and in my past excursions into the 55's i always seemed to bust 5 or 6 handed because i was WAY TOO agressive at 100-200 blinds.


Degen

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
i always seemed to bust 5 or 6 handed because i was WAY TOO agressive at 100-200 blinds.


[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like where we've disagreed in the past.

[J-Lo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i always seemed to bust 5 or 6 handed because i was WAY TOO agressive at 100-200 blinds.


[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like where we've disagreed in the past.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean Degen prefers to eak into the money-- while scuba prefers to go balls to the walls and pick up chips when blinds are big?

[Degen]

ya but for me this works in the 33's...but not in the 55's


Degen

[valenzuela]

I think agresive play in the bubble is very important, ppl won t play back at u at least they have a hand.

[Degen]

"
Does this mean Degen prefers to eak into the money-- while scuba prefers to go balls to the walls and pick up chips when blinds are big? "


hehe...quite the opposite actually


Degen

j/k Scuba...don't go full-blown again

[Degen]

in the 33's i've carved out a nice niche by being a loon 4-6 handed...but this same strategy doesn't seem to work in the 55's...at least not in my short experience.

i could be wrong but i'm quickly gaining the impression that it is going to take a lot more paitence and 'feel' to dominate these.

how in the hell does raptor 8 table these????


Degen

[1C5]

Actually he 12 tables them.

[zaphod]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually he 12 tables them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually he 8 tables the 100$(at the moment anyway).

[Mr_J]

I started off by doing around 50 11s-55s (20 $55s the rest mainly $33s). Decent success. Then I did a coaching deal with Irie and played around 450 $33s then dropped to the $22s for 250. I would move up to the $55s now (took a stab 3-4 weeks ago), but I'm looking to add more tables (6 more) so it'll be a few more weeks before I make the move.

I really haven't put in the hours so far (just over 3 months of sngs), but am finally getting serious. 140 sngs played over the last 3 days the net has worked. Minimum of 50 a day from now on.

[Mr_J]

From my brief stab at the 55s I got the impression you could be more aggressive when it's shorthanded? Larger stacks, people are less desperate so less likely to call. They are also marginally more skillful, so have a better respect for the GAP???

[Mr_J]

"I can say this with absolute certainty: "

That's obviously not correct. Greater number of profitable players at the $33s reduces your edge, so your ROI drops. You think the effect isn't great (but you'd be a fool to say there is no effect), other think it is.

My opinion is that you'll earn slightly more per hour at the 33s, but it's not significant enough for the move up to be a MUST. I did have this opinion before Irie posted (I was playing $22s before then), so it is my own. I'm also planning to skip the $33s (so my 'career' = $33s=> $22s => $55s and hopefully then the $109s.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I think agresive play in the bubble is very important, ppl won t play back at u at least they have a hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Valenzuela, what is your definition of the bubble? My definition is 4 people. This post was regarding 5 or 6. That, IMO, is not the bubble. Otherwise, your comment is correct. Your inference, IMO, is not.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean Degen prefers to eak into the money-- while scuba prefers to go balls to the walls and pick up chips when blinds are big? "


hehe...quite the opposite actually


Degen

j/k Scuba...don't go full-blown again

[/ QUOTE ]

I won't, but I think there still seems to be some mistakes by players on this forum. Going "looney" 6 handed is a mistake. Going "looney" 4 handed is not. There are some quality arguments to increasing your "looniness" 5 handed. 4 handed, if you're not pushing at least 2 of the 3 blinds (and btw, picking up your BB because of the fear of your looniness), you're probably playing too tight.

Now what to do when there's someone at your table playing that strategy? Well, that's an interesting discussion.

[valenzuela]

The Bubble is when there is one player left, at least when they are 3 ppl that pay. When 100 places pay, the bubble is more like the 10 last guys.
Anyway I just meant that I dont fold into the money, I would say my bubble play is ehhh...gappy.

[Mr_J]

"and btw, picking up your BB because of the fear of your looniness"

This always puts a smile on my face. Gotta lay down the law.