All-In or Fold KQo

[bkm]

$20+2 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t4400)
BB (t540)
Hero (t1600)
Button (t1460)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.


If you're playing for first instead of just trying to finish ITM, do you push or fold?

[TheHardAss]

BB is 140 chips short of being all in right? Just double, if the big stack wants to move in, let him do it, he will usually have you beat and you can let him try to eliminate the short stack first. I would assume this will normally fold to BB, who will call his last 140, and you are well ahead of his random hand.

[Apathy]

I'm in the Haiku mood:

Do not play for first
Or to finish in-the-money
listen: PROFIT BITCH!

(BTW DON'T PUSH THIS EITHER WAY)

edited: didnt see stack sizes

[yanicehand]

i have a feeling this might be a leak of mine, but i tend to min raise. if big stack reraises, you get out of town. if he calls, well, you don't like your position but there are worse hands to "play poker with" (gasp) than KQo. I really don't like a push, and I really don't like folding this 4 handed either.

[Meatmaw]

Well, if your evaluation is that the other two will call you with a PP or Ax, then you're looking at 256 hands out of 1225 possible hands. That's a 62.5% chance that NEITHER of the two call you. At 60% chance that your KQo beats a random hand, your chance of walking away with a simple +540 win is 3/8. All other cases involve 3-way hands or a loss. Doesn't sound like push is appropriate.

I'd probably fold, but only because I'm now at a loss for what the appropriate play is and I'd like to sit and see what the stacks are after this hand.

Other insights?

[bkm]

My concerns with folding are

1)It gets folded to the big stack and he folds to keep the small stack alive so he can whittle down the medium stacks.

or

2) He only has to call t200 or he could put the small stack in for t349. For such a small amount the big stack can play almost any 2 cards and, unless the small stack has a trash hand, this gives the small stack a good chance to double up.


I think a min raise is the weakest choice. I lose a lot of FE doing that as the big stack can call t600 with a wide range of hands. If he wants to call my push, he has a much smaller range of hands he can play. If he raises and I fold, the small stack can triple up if he has a good hand and my t800 will be down to t200 after I pass through the blinds, assuming I don't get a playable hand. If he calls my min raise and the flop doesn't help me, he's certainly going to pop in a t400 bet and then I have a decision to make.

[Paul2432]

I push here. I think you by no means have a lock on 3rd. You have a reasonably strong hand in a four-handed situation and the blinds are huge. Calling or min-raising with the intention of folding to a raise is the worst possible option. If I were the SB and a player min-raised I would strongly consider pushing with anything.

Paul

[NegativeEV]

Anyone like calling? Being first to act in this situation and having shorty act last preflop is interesting. What about a call and if shorty goes all in preflop Hero pushes? If Hero calls, biggie pushes and shorty folds, Hero has a tougher decision but a lock on getting ITM if he folds. Don't you want to be sure that shorty is all in on this hand if Hero is?

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
do you push or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only push or fold?
There are other options here
to consider first.

FWIW, between pushing and folding I'd think pushing is most likely more profitable...

Also, table texture and opponents does play a significant role here.

Yugoslav

[nova]

A lot would depend on the reads on the players, however at this stage and on the bubble, BB is going to move all in on this had with any two cards. Based on that, a call is a bad idea since even if big stack calls, small stack raises his remaining 160...you call THAT, and then big stack puts you all in, and you are up against 2 hands instead of one. That said, your options should be between push and fold.

I fold this based on the fact that big stack already has you covered 3x: it'll be a fight to get those chips. The chance of big stack playing the pot is there if you push (it won't necessarily drive him out, he could narrow it down to 2 with this one hand and have a monstrous lead).

I fold this, let the big stack put the BB all in, he calls, and goes out and you are ITM. Then gear down and gamble your way to first.

[NegativeEV]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot would depend on the reads on the players, however at this stage and on the bubble, BB is going to move all in on this had with any two cards. Based on that, a call is a bad idea since even if big stack calls, small stack raises his remaining 160...you call THAT, and then big stack puts you all in, and you are up against 2 hands instead of one. That said, your options should be between push and fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's nice when you call, biggie calls, and BB goes all in. I would push then happily. I like that better than pushing, biggie calling, and BB folds as this is his best chance to get ITM. If I'm in a 3-way pot with shorty I have to lose to BOTH players to have a bad result.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're playing for first instead of just trying to finish ITM

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't you do both?

I refuse to believe that just because you got two cards with pictures on them you feel this is the defining moment of your tournament.