How much can you bluff at 1/2 6 max?

[kapw7]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
SB is 60/3, BB 32/12, UTG 37/4, CO 85/0 and me 37/21/images/graemlins/cool.gif after 30+ hands

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Never seen a C-R on the table before so I went for it

Flop: (5 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, CO folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

I guess at least one of them has to have a heart but they usually bet a draw with any heart card

River: (4 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, UTG folds.

Wasn't that a standard river bet? Of course I showed my hand and after that they were calling every single bet from me.



Final Pot: 5 BB

[sin808]

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Of course I showed my hand and after that they were calling every single bet from me.


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I hope you didn't bluff at all after that.

[bottomset]

I don't get the preflop call

[imported_CaseClosed326]

Yeah...fold pre flop...

[ArturiusX]

Why the hell would you think this hand would be profitable preflop?

[kapw7]

I am surprised to see that everyone is commenting on the PF play when the theme of this hand is about bluffing in micros. A lot of ppl say that it is impossible to bluff and this is true to an extent but it is possible. Maybe not profitable, but fun and educational for someone who wants to develop his playing skills.

About the PF play: First, most of the players were very loose and very passive (never raised) and very-very predictable post-flop. I was running very good from the moment I sat on the table with some pretty big hands and I saw that ppl started respecting my bets and raises too much. So I tried to play a few marginal but riskless hands from good position always, to show that I can play anything. It's not a terrible PF call for this purpose with 5:1 odds and implied odds against calling stations. It's also much less risky than say KJo against 4 ppl. If I don't make my hand I don't invest more - if I make it I usually win. With KJ you can never be sure. (Before you attack me again I don't imply that KJo is worse than 72s or that you should play 72s at the button against limpers).

I play poker for only 4 months but I think experimenting and varying your game is much better than playing like a robot. I don't care if I lose a few microbets for educational purposes although I am making a profit so far.

[Mister Z]

So what do you want us to say? Good hand? Fold pre-flop you robot beyotch!

[jba]

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...the theme of this hand is about bluffing in micros.


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It's not a terrible PF call for this purpose with 5:1 odds and implied odds against calling stations.


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These statements are contradictory. If they're calling stations you cannot bluff them.

You are 8:1 against hitting a flush draw and something like 50:1 against hitting two pair or better.




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I think experimenting and varying your game is much better than playing like a robot.

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I agree completely, but I still think calling 72s is -EV.

[chris_a]

Against loose passive opponents you need to be able to win the showdown to win. Bluffing doesn't work well and playing suited cock doesn't either. And yes, 72s is suited cock.

BTW 4 players in with you means 4:1 not 5:1. Even 5:1 is not enough with this hand even with position even against bad players. Even 8:1 isn't.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
I am surprised to see that everyone is commenting on the PF play when the theme of this hand is about bluffing in micros. A lot of ppl say that it is impossible to bluff and this is true to an extent but it is possible. Maybe not profitable, but fun and educational for someone who wants to develop his playing skills.

About the PF play: First, most of the players were very loose and very passive (never raised) and very-very predictable post-flop. I was running very good from the moment I sat on the table with some pretty big hands and I saw that ppl started respecting my bets and raises too much. So I tried to play a few marginal but riskless hands from good position always, to show that I can play anything. It's not a terrible PF call for this purpose with 5:1 odds and implied odds against calling stations. It's also much less risky than say KJo against 4 ppl. If I don't make my hand I don't invest more - if I make it I usually win. With KJ you can never be sure. (Before you attack me again I don't imply that KJo is worse than 72s or that you should play 72s at the button against limpers).

I play poker for only 4 months but I think experimenting and varying your game is much better than playing like a robot. I don't care if I lose a few microbets for educational purposes although I am making a profit so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you think you are more likely to win with a pair of 7s, or 2s than Ks or Js?? are you serious, also its harder to counterfeit KKJJ than 7722, KJ can also make 2straights you can't w/ 72 ... the suitedness is valuable but KJo is still much better in this situation .. KJ gets a bad rap alot of the time, its not a great hand, but its solid and usually makes the best hand when it hits in an unraised pot

as for postflop

the flop bet was bad, the turn check was good, and the river bet only worked because it was an overcard that 4flushed the board, and they didn't have much .. just about every nonheart river you'll get called on

[kapw7]

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[ QUOTE ]
(Before you attack me again I don't imply that KJo is worse than 72s or that you should play 72s at the button against limpers).



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so you think you are more likely to win with a pair of 7s, or 2s than Ks or Js?? are you serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did I say that? Please make the effort to read what I wrote. I know my English is not the best and I apologise for that, but I think I was clear. I said 72s is a less risky hand b/c you don't invest more if you don't fit (flush draw &amp; maybe 2 pair). With KJ you can invest a lot of bets and lose to a better kicker, a pair etc. Of course KJ is more profitable.

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as for postflop

the flop bet was bad,

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it was bad. It was a bluff.

[kapw7]

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These statements are contradictory. If they're calling stations you cannot bluff them.


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Exactly that's why I posted this hand b/c I was so surprised it worked.

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I agree completely, but I still think calling 72s is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Experimenting need not to be always EV+. At least on the short run. Otherwise most law students wouldn't pay for their tuition

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Before you attack me again I don't imply that KJo is worse than 72s or that you should play 72s at the button against limpers).


[/ QUOTE ]

I managed to miss that line somehow

though the general idea is the same, your 72s doesn't hit enough flushdraws, 2pair or better to play .. plus you will often be sucked into calling a flop bet with just a pair of 2's or 7's .. and you get broke far more often when you do it the board hard with 72s than KJo

bluffs aren't bad bets if applied properly, betting into 4opponents on a 3flush board however is not the place to try
the river is a decent opportunity though once again its not a good spot .. since you need to fold both a good % of the time, and its not likely

bluffs should be used against 1opponent the vast majority of the time, and against opponents that are capable of folding

in that you don't bluff a calling station, but focus on valuebetting marginal hands