The Yankees Actually Make Me Sick

[Mansavage]

2005 Salaries (http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries)

This has gotten absolutely out of control. The fact that a Major League team spends over $200mil in salary makes be wish I had lived back in the 50's, when the majors league players weren't only in it for the money.

[Dead]

No one bitched when the Sox had the biggest payroll all throughout the 80s.

And it's damned awesome that 3 of the top 5 salaries belong to Yankees.

[ThaSaltCracka]

just think, they spend 200 million and they haven't won in 4 years.....baseball is fine.

[PassiveCaller]

Thus they are the only team I ever catch myself wishing total failure and injury upon. It'll catch up to them if they keep making boneheaded moves.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
2005 Salaries (http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries)

This has gotten absolutely out of control. The fact that a Major League team spends over $200mil in salary makes be wish I had lived back in the 50's, when the majors league players weren't only in it for the money.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why do you care what Baseball players make?

[PassiveCaller]

Poetic justice is what losing the 3-0 lead was.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2005 Salaries (http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries)

This has gotten absolutely out of control. The fact that a Major League team spends over $200mil in salary makes be wish I had lived back in the 50's, when the majors league players weren't only in it for the money.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why do you care what Baseball players make?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's just a commie who believes everyone should make the same amount. At the very least, he wants a salary cap instituted.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2005 Salaries (http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries)

This has gotten absolutely out of control. The fact that a Major League team spends over $200mil in salary makes be wish I had lived back in the 50's, when the majors league players weren't only in it for the money.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why do you care what Baseball players make?

[/ QUOTE ]
well whats a more important point is that being a pro athlete is a job. Does he expect players to work for peanuts and have no rights like they did in baseballs early days?

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2005 Salaries (http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries)

This has gotten absolutely out of control. The fact that a Major League team spends over $200mil in salary makes be wish I had lived back in the 50's, when the majors league players weren't only in it for the money.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why do you care what Baseball players make?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's just a commie who believes everyone should make the same amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I thought you were bad!

[ThaSaltCracka]

being a Yankee hater is sooooo 2002, get past it mayne.

[Dead]

It's simple supply and demand.

A-Rod is the best in the game. Therefore, he makes the most money.

There are very few A-Rod's. There are plenty of Gabe Kapler's and Trot Nixon's.

[istewart]

Pwnt.

[jstnrgrs]

A salry cap would make baseball more interesting. Yes the yankees haven't won the world series in 4 years, but they always win the division. baseball would be more interesting if teams like Tampa Bay, and Toronto had a chance. (And I know a salry cap would hurt my team, but it would improve the game overall.)

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
A salry cap would make baseball more interesting. Yes the yankees haven't won the world series in 4 years, but they always win the division. baseball would be more interesting if teams like Tampa Bay, and Toronto had a chance. (And I know a salry cap would hurt my team, but it would improve the game overall.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I took his agruement to be very different than wanting a salary cap.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2005 Salaries (http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/salaries)

This has gotten absolutely out of control. The fact that a Major League team spends over $200mil in salary makes be wish I had lived back in the 50's, when the majors league players weren't only in it for the money.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why do you care what Baseball players make?

[/ QUOTE ]
exactly

[Mansavage]

I am actually not a commie, far from it, but I am a Twins fan. I really do enjoy watching the Twins constantly cycle young players into their lineup each and every year and remain competitive. Their $56mil is basically spent keeping the good players that they brought through the system.

I do think that a salary cap could be beneficial to the game, look at how the NFL's popularity surged at the same time as parity. If nothing else, a bigger luxury tax should help some.

[PassiveCaller]

Never!

[Dead]

The salary cap in the NFL is avoided all the time. Lawyers find ways to massage it.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
I am actually not a commie, far from it, but I am a Twins fan. I really do enjoy watching the Twins constantly cycle young players into their lineup each and every year and remain competitive. Their $56mil is basically spent keeping the good players that they brought through the system.

I do think that a salary cap could be beneficial to the game, look at how the NFL's popularity surged at the same time as parity. If nothing else, a bigger luxury tax should help some.

[/ QUOTE ]
parity sucks
btw, isnt the twins ownership loaded? i mean super loaded? they could spend much more money than they do to keep their players

[TheJunkyardGod]

[ QUOTE ]
baseball would be more interesting if teams like Tampa Bay, and Toronto had a chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or like the Florida Marlins? When they beat the yankees in the World Series, didnt they have the lowest payroll in baseball?

[Dead]

I didn't realize Moose was making 19 mil this year.

That makes him the highest paid pitcher in baseball. Clemens is #2 on the highest paid pitcher list.

#3 and #4 are Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson, respectively. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

6 of the 15 highest paid players are Yanks.

[mostsmooth]

kevin brown is fvcking terrible
if he wins 5 games this year it will be a miracle

[Vince Young]

7. Jeff Bagwell, HOU $18,000,000

Wow.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
kevin brown is fvcking terrible
if he wins 5 games this year it will be a miracle

[/ QUOTE ]

I will take that bet.

[sublime]

6 of the 15 highest paid players are Yanks.

which is fine IMO. i mean to some degree it upsets me that the yankess really dont live in fear of injurys or a disaters like brown and giambi (which would cripple most teams, probably even the sox) but hey, its life. sooner or later, it will catch up with them.

i love baseball. i love the sox. i need a team like the yankees.

[Dead]

Brown is not terrible.

He is a fantastic pitcher when he is healthy.

Check out his 2003 stats:

32 starts
2.39 era
184 hits in 211 innings
185 Ks

1996 31 FLA NL 17 11 32 32 5 3 0 0 233.0 187 60 49 8 33 159 16 6 906 1.89 4.05 214
1997 32 FLA NL 16 8 33 33 6 2 0 0 237.3 214 77 71 10 66 205 14 7 976 2.69 4.04 150
1998 33 SDP NL 18 7 36 35 7 3 0 0 257.0 225 77 68 8 49 257 10 10 1032 2.38 3.81 160
1999 34 LAD NL 18 9 35 35 5 1 0 0 252.3 210 99 84 19 59 221 7 4 1018 3.00 4.43 148
2000 35 LAD NL 13 6 33 33 5 1 0 0 230.0 181 76 66 21 47 216 9 4 921 2.58 4.31 167
2001 36 LAD NL 10 4 20 19 1 0 0 0 115.7 94 41 34 8 38 104 2 3 465 2.65 4.01 152

Brown has been one of the best pitchers in baseball over the past 10 years. I think that he is going to have a very decent year this year, once he gets back.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kevin brown is fvcking terrible
if he wins 5 games this year it will be a miracle

[/ QUOTE ]

I will take that bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
how much?

[Dead]

I bet you're going to pull a bullshit move and make the bet, and then Kevin Brown will win 8 games, and you'll say, oh, he didn't win exactly 5, so I don't have to pay you.

Be aware, [censored]

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Brown is not terrible.

He is a fantastic pitcher when he is healthy.

Check out his 2003 stats:

32 starts
2.39 era
184 hits in 211 innings
185 Ks

1996 31 FLA NL 17 11 32 32 5 3 0 0 233.0 187 60 49 8 33 159 16 6 906 1.89 4.05 214
1997 32 FLA NL 16 8 33 33 6 2 0 0 237.3 214 77 71 10 66 205 14 7 976 2.69 4.04 150
1998 33 SDP NL 18 7 36 35 7 3 0 0 257.0 225 77 68 8 49 257 10 10 1032 2.38 3.81 160
1999 34 LAD NL 18 9 35 35 5 1 0 0 252.3 210 99 84 19 59 221 7 4 1018 3.00 4.43 148
2000 35 LAD NL 13 6 33 33 5 1 0 0 230.0 181 76 66 21 47 216 9 4 921 2.58 4.31 167
2001 36 LAD NL 10 4 20 19 1 0 0 0 115.7 94 41 34 8 38 104 2 3 465 2.65 4.01 152

Brown has been one of the best pitchers in baseball over the past 10 years. I think that he is going to have a very decent year this year, once he gets back.

[/ QUOTE ]
is this another of your hunches? stop thinking and living in the past, brown stinks

[[censored]]

$50?

["spaceman"Bryce]

[ QUOTE ]
A salry cap would make baseball more interesting. Yes the yankees haven't won the world series in 4 years, but they always win the division. baseball would be more interesting if teams like Tampa Bay, and Toronto had a chance. (And I know a salry cap would hurt my team, but it would improve the game overall.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Kansas City Royals Say sign us up!

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
$50?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will give you 5.5 as well.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet you're going to pull a bullshit move and make the bet, and then Kevin Brown will win 8 games, and you'll say, oh, he didn't win exactly 5, so I don't have to pay you.

Be aware, [censored]

[/ QUOTE ]
of course i meant exactly 5, what did you think?
plus, i wouldnt say i dont have to pay, id be saying pay me!
btw, dont you have any hunches to come up with?

[Dead]

Royals don't have any gay players, do they, now that Beltran left? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$50?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will give you 5.5 as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to give him 5.5 to 1 on an exact bet? The guy is a scam artist.

[Crveballin]

Nothing made me Mora happy than seeing Carl Pavano get drilled in the back of the head by a linedrive. If only Melvin Mora could hit like this against all the other Yankee pitchers.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$50?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will give you 5.5 as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to give him 5.5 to 1 on an exact bet? The guy is a scam artist.

[/ QUOTE ]

No no, I would have given 5.5 wins, meaning if Brown wins 5 he wins, 6+ I win

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$50?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will give you 5.5 as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to give him 5.5 to 1 on an exact bet? The guy is a scam artist.

[/ QUOTE ]

No no, I would have given 5.5 wins, meaning if Brown wins 5 he wins, 6+ I win

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, well, Mostsmooth was going to try to [censored] you out of your money by making this bet and then if Brown did not win exactly 5 games, he wins. If Brown wins 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10, etc. he wins. Shitty bet for you.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing made me Mora happy than seeing Carl Pavano get drilled in the back of the head by a linedrive. If only Melvin Mora could hit like this against all the other Yankee pitchers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not Funny!

OK maybe a little /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Dead]

I remember when Moose got hit by a pitch a few years ago. It scared him for like 6 months afterward. Everytime the ball came hard off the bat he would duck down.

[[censored]]

So basically he admits that Brown is much better than he originaly posted. I can live with that.

K.Brown pwns Mostsmooth.

[Uston]

the Sox had the biggest payroll all throughout the 80s.

Please cite your source.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
So basically he admits that Brown is much better than he originaly posted. I can live with that.

K.Brown pwns Mostsmooth.

[/ QUOTE ]
not true, i stand by my original statement, if brown wins 5 games it will be a miracle

[Mansavage]

Yes, Carl Pohlad is very, very rich. The thing that pisses me off is not when he lets a home grown talent get away (this rarely happens...he paid up for Kirby Puckett, Brad Radke, Tori Hunter, etc.) but that he won't pony up any money for a damn stadium.

The Metrodome is perhaps the worst place to watch a baseball game in the country. I watch them play in Kansas City or Baltimore and almost want to cry I am so jealous.

[Crveballin]

[ QUOTE ]
K.Brown pwns Mostsmooth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Injuries pwns K.Brown

[Crveballin]

[ QUOTE ]
The Metrodome is perhaps the worst place to watch a baseball game in the country. I watch them play in Kansas City or Baltimore and almost want to cry I am so jealous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but us Baltimore fans cry every time they see their pitchers get rocked day in and day out while our owner pays for more hitting.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
K.Brown pwns Mostsmooth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Injuries pwns K.Brown

[/ QUOTE ]

Steinbrenner's cash pwns injuries.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Metrodome is perhaps the worst place to watch a baseball game in the country. I watch them play in Kansas City or Baltimore and almost want to cry I am so jealous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but us Baltimore fans cry every time they see their pitchers get rocked day in and day out while our owner pays for more hitting.

[/ QUOTE ]
you can have brown

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Metrodome is perhaps the worst place to watch a baseball game in the country. I watch them play in Kansas City or Baltimore and almost want to cry I am so jealous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but us Baltimore fans cry every time they see their pitchers get rocked day in and day out while our owner pays for more hitting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually have a theory about the Orioles. Every 2-3 three years their owner wakes up overspends for the biggest bat available and then goes back to sleep.

[TeeJayORTj]

I dont think players like Trot Nixon grow on trees. He might not hit leftys well but his 2003 numbers were amazing. He was 5th in the AL in Slugging% and 4th in OPS. Vs Rightys he is one of the best in the game. He was hurt last year but here comes another very solid year.

Its much safer to say players like Bernie, Tino and Womack grown on trees.

[Crveballin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Metrodome is perhaps the worst place to watch a baseball game in the country. I watch them play in Kansas City or Baltimore and almost want to cry I am so jealous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but us Baltimore fans cry every time they see their pitchers get rocked day in and day out while our owner pays for more hitting.

[/ QUOTE ]
you can have brown

[/ QUOTE ]

We had him once. Dont want him again.

[Jack of Arcades]

Bernie was once an amazing player and has a good case for the Hall of Fame.

[Dead]

Lmao.

Dude you are ridiculous.

You seriously think that Nixon > Bernie? Maybe right now, but Bernie's career has been far more impressive than Trot Nixon's.

[Vince Young]

Actually their career numbers are very close, and Trot has many years to go while Bernie is well past his prime.

[sublime]

Bernie's career has been far more impressive than Trot Nixon's.

far more is a bit much. you cant hold it aginst trot that he didnt play in all those playoff games. that being said, when all is said and done bernies prime will probably be better than trots.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually their career numbers are very close, and Trot has many years to go while Bernie is well past his prime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bernie
Games 1811
Avg .301
hits 2099
hr's 263
2b's 401
slg .487
ops .874

4 gold gloves, 1 ALCS MVP

Trot Nixon
Games 751
Avg .280
hits 703
hr's 113
2b's 152
slg .496
ops .863

Their career numbers aren't that close. Nixon is on that pace though.

[Jack of Arcades]

Yeah, except for the fact that Bernie Williams has shown himself to be superior over Trot Nixon in every possible way. Well, except arm strength.

[jstnrgrs]

Yes, but the Yankees still got to the WS. I want a system in which there is actually a chance the Yankees will miss the playoffs.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but the Yankees still got to the WS. I want a system in which there is actually a chance the Yankees will miss the playoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boo! No need to get drastic man.

[Dead]

Bernie hits homers.

Trot doesn't.

Bernie was a far superior fielder. Trot has never been a good fielder.

[Jack of Arcades]

No, far is not a bit much at all. Trot has slightly more than 3000 PAs.

[Vince Young]

(per 162 games)

Bernie

HR 24
RBI 101
Runs 112
AVG .301
OBP .387

Trot

HR 24
RBI 88
Runs 92
AVG .279
OBP .366

Yeah, a real blowout.

[Jack of Arcades]

Trot has a better homerun rate than Bernie, and he was once a stellar RF.

[Dead]

Trot's 31 today. Bernie was far better than Trot was at age 31.,

[Jack of Arcades]

Meanwhile, back in reality, logical people have noticed the fact that Trot is essentially a platoon player, has played in a higher offense era, plays in a hitter's ballpark, and plays right field.

Career OPS+: Bernie, 130; Trot 121. Not only that, Bernie's advantage is understated here because his OPS is more OBP heavy.

Did I mention Bernie's a centerfielder? Well, at least he was one, now he's more of a statue.

Did I mention Bernie has 8000 PA? Trot has slightly more than 3000.

[asb165]

Blah, blah blah. Bernie plays better jazz guitar. Blah, blah, blah. He has a lot of grand slams. Blah, blah, blah. Bernie and his teammates choke away a 3-0 series lead better than anyone else ever in the history of professional sports.

[Jack of Arcades]

Are you the biggest idiot ever?

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
It's simple supply and demand.

A-Rod is the best in the game. Therefore, he makes the most money.

There are very few A-Rod's. There are plenty of Gabe Kapler's and Trot Nixon's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, mediocre players like Kapler and Nixon have rings while A-Rod has none. When A-Rod stops bringing every team he plays for down, I'll be impressed.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's simple supply and demand.

A-Rod is the best in the game. Therefore, he makes the most money.

There are very few A-Rod's. There are plenty of Gabe Kapler's and Trot Nixon's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, mediocre players like Kapler and Nixon have rings while A-Rod has none. When A-Rod stops bringing every team he plays for down, I'll be impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus, do you guys even play poker? What the hell?

[TeeJayORTj]

Obviously career wise right now Bernie is leaps ahead of Trot that is not to be debated. I am saying right now Bernie is a below average CF and Is a severe defensive liability. I was sitting in the CF bleachers today and the jumps he was getting were horriable. There was this one ball I thought was an easy out but dropped 10 feet away from him. It looked like he was moving in slow motion.

Any scout would tell you range wise he is one of the worst in the game. Bernie Williams should not be playing CF in the MLB. Why do you think they tried that Lofton thing last year? Cashman and Torre know this but there is nothing they can do until Bernies contract expires at the end of the year.

So I stand by my statement that players like a CURRENT Bernie Williams "grow on trees" as you like to say.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's simple supply and demand.

A-Rod is the best in the game. Therefore, he makes the most money.

There are very few A-Rod's. There are plenty of Gabe Kapler's and Trot Nixon's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, mediocre players like Kapler and Nixon have rings while A-Rod has none. When A-Rod stops bringing every team he plays for down, I'll be impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine, kyro.

Jeter> Nixon and Kapler. Jeter has 4 rings.

So your argument is ridic.

[Dead]

It's not like Manny is worth his 22 mil. The guy is an awful fielder. He drops so many balls it's not even funny. His bat is what he is known for.

[mostsmooth]

thanks captain obvious

[B00T]

[ QUOTE ]
Bernie was once an amazing player and has a good case for the Hall of Fame.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[TeeJayORTj]

Ok Manny is overpaid...but so is Jeter, Bernie, Giambi, A-Rod, Brown...whats your point?

[Vince Young]

Yankee Stadium:
318-L, 408-C, 314-R

Fenway:
310-L, 420-C, 302 R

Wow, what an advantage! If Bernie were on the Sox, he'd have doubled Bonds' record easily. But, only if Bernie hadn't retired before the "higher offense era." Oh wait.

No idea what you're talking about for OPS, the only OPS I know of is AVG + SLG %, and I don't see how AB's have anything to do with anything(and you're off by 1000 and 500 respectively).

[andyfox]

Of course the 1950s players were in it for the money. They couldn't make as much doing anything else. But they had no power whatsoever. Either they accepted what the owner of their team offered or they didn't play. And if they were traded, too bad, pick up your family and move or don't earn a living.

They're entertainers and are paid like entertainers.

[mostsmooth]

ops isnt ave + slugging

[Jack of Arcades]

He'll be roughly equivalent in career value to Andre Dawson, IMO.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok Manny is overpaid...but so is Jeter, Bernie, Giambi, A-Rod, Brown...whats your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter and A-Rod are overpaid? How?

Jeter brings many intangibles to the Yankees, and A-Rod is the only true 40-40 guy in the history of the game.

[Vince Young]

Yeah, those 7 errors a year definitely overshadow him having more home runs, RBI's, a better OBP, AVG, and walks than A-Rod.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
No idea what you're talking about for OPS, the only OPS I know of is AVG + SLG %

[/ QUOTE ]

Please STOP posting in this thread immediately. You have no clue what OPS is. You are not qualified to discuss baseball.

Thanks.

[Vince Young]

OBP, same thing.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, those 7 errors a year definitely overshadow him having more home runs, RBI's, a better OBP, AVG, and walks than A-Rod.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has 9 more home runs. He's also been in the league 2 years longer.

You have no clue about outfield defense compared to infield defense if you trumpet 7 errors.

Ask anyone on here if A-Rod is a better player than Manny. A-Rod is better than Manny offensively, and leagues better defensively.

Why not do a poll?

[Phoenix1010]

I believe your problem is that you're looking at one statistic as if it were in a vaccum. Many factors go into the spending equation, it can't just be a flat rate for everyone.

I think this link might help.
MLB Valuations (http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2004/0426/066tab.html)

The Yankees are far and away the biggest market in baseball, with a valuation over 60% higher than the nearest competitor. The team salaries are mostly a reflection of this fact. That said, the Yankees are still overpayed, as the expenditures actually still outweigh the revenue, causing the Yanks to actually lose money. This comes directly out of the owner's pocket. George Steinbrenner is not the richest owner is baseball, but he is the most willing to spend what it takes to win. But this overspending is not unique in baseball. The Mets and Dodgers are also overspending, and no one is yelling at them. And they shouldn't. Either you're treating it like a business to make a profit, or you're treating it like a competetive sport to build a winner. You've got to spend to win. Even so, The main reason why the Yankees have the highest salaries is still not George Steinbrenner, It's mostly because the Yankees make more money.
(the preceding argument is not as forceful as it was in 04, as the data has changed in 05 with the Yanks overspending far more, but it is still applicable)

There is no real salary cap as of yet, this is the way the system works. If you want to make things "fairer," you can set a salary cap of 30 million so people in Tampa Bay feel better. That will give an extra 100 million to the Yankees ownership that doesn't go back into the team (lets not even talk about the Redsox, no one likes to mention that their salaries are a hefty sum above every other team as well), essentially screwing the fans. Yankees fans support their team monetarily, far more than those of any other team in baseball, and the owner of our team is willing to do whatever it takes to make us a winner. It's nice that the quality of the team reflects that.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
OBP, same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO it's not the same thing.

In baseball statistics, on-base plus slugging (denoted by OPS) is defined by the sum of on base percentage (OBP) and slugging percentage (SLG).

You don't know enough about this topic.

[Vince Young]

I actually knew that it was OBP instead of AVG you moron, quit making a big deal out of little details.

[Dead]

http://www.sport2go.com/top-books/baseball/baseballdum.jpg

[TeeJayORTj]

Nate Silver last year I think it was had an article talking about relating win shares to salary. It was an excellent article but due to BP having a worse search engine then here I can not find it. Hell it might have been two years ago.

Basically though it talks about there is an exponential relationship between a players "value" (win shares is good) and his salary.

Here is a link to a site which compared someones Win Shares to their salary (http://www.baseballgraphs.com/winshares/wsvalue.html). Its from 2003 but still...head to about 5 from the bottom of the list and see whos there.

Here is some partial info from last year Here (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/net-win-shares-value/)

[Jack of Arcades]

Dude, there are ways to compute this, you know. It's quite simple. Over the past ten years, the Red Sox have scored roughly 3% more runs at home than on the road. Meanwhile, the Yankees have scored roughly 3% less runs at home than on the road. There's more to a park than just dimensions. Wall size, ball visibility, infield, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
No idea what you're talking about for OPS, the only OPS I know of is AVG + SLG %

[/ QUOTE ]

OPS is OBP + SLG. OPS+ adjusts for league and park. 130 is 15% better than the league average, 121 is 10.5%.

Lets put it this way: if you replaced Trot Nixon with an average hitter, he'd hit .272/.341/.437. If you replaced Bernie with an average hitter, he'd hit .268/.338/.424.

Once again, it's worth noting that Bernie Williams is a *center-fielder.* Centerfielders that can hit are worth much more than right fielders who can hit.

[ QUOTE ]
and I don't see how AB's have anything to do with anything(and you're off by 1000 and 500 respectively).

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, here's an idea. Read my post again, and tell me where I ever, ever mentioned at-bats. You won't find it. You know why? Because I mentioned plate appearances.

Also, if you cannot see how plate appearances are relevant in discussing career value, there's nothing I can do for you except ask you how those special education classes are working out for you.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Nate Silver last year I think it was had an article talking about relating win shares to salary. It was an excellent article but due to BP having a worse search engine then here I can not find it. Hell it might have been two years ago.

Basically though it talks about there is an exponential relationship between a players "value" (win shares is good) and his salary.

Here is a link to a site which compared someones Win Shares to their salary (http://www.baseballgraphs.com/winshares/wsvalue.html). Its from 2003 but still...head to about 5 from the bottom of the list and see whos there.

Here is some partial info from last year Here (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/net-win-shares-value/)

[/ QUOTE ]
what was this supposed to prove? (i must have missed a post or two)

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, those 7 errors a year definitely overshadow him having more home runs, RBI's, a better OBP, AVG, and walks than A-Rod.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has 9 more home runs. He's also been in the league 2 years longer.

You have no clue about outfield defense compared to infield defense if you trumpet 7 errors.

Ask anyone on here if A-Rod is a better player than Manny. A-Rod is better than Manny offensively, and leagues better defensively.

Why not do a poll?

[/ QUOTE ]
2 years huh? More like 1 year and 19 AB's. The difference is that Manny is getting better and A-Rod is getting worse.

I don't really care what 2+2 thinks, but you can make a poll if you want. Give me a guy who had the best season of his life last year and is getting better every year over a guy declining. I'll surrender the 7 errors.

[asb165]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Manny is overpaid...but so is Jeter, Bernie, Giambi, A-Rod, Brown...whats your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter and A-Rod are overpaid? How?

Jeter brings many intangibles to the Yankees, and A-Rod is the only true 40-40 guy in the history of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please go back to NYYFans.com (http://www.nyyfans.com) to talk with other people who think that "intangibles" are worth $19.6 million per year. Sure, that dive into the stands last year proves he should be the fourth highest paid player in baseball. He's a good player, but Captain Intangibles needs to stop his little jackknife away from the plate, butt thrust, called third strike move.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Vince, just when I think you are starting to turn around and be somewhat intelligent, you go and ruin everything. You really sound quite foolish in this thread, and it is apparent you know far less about baseball then you are willing to admit to.

[TeeJayORTj]

Please...in any situation I would much rather have Manny up then A-Rod. I dont think A-Rod knows what a meaningful hit is.

I think this year Manny has more HR, more 2B, More RBI and a higher batting average. He will not get the 20 SB A-Rod will get but Manny is much better at the plate. He is easily the best right handed hitter in the AL...most likely second in baseball behind some Pujols guy.

[TeeJayORTj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nate Silver last year I think it was had an article talking about relating win shares to salary. It was an excellent article but due to BP having a worse search engine then here I can not find it. Hell it might have been two years ago.

Basically though it talks about there is an exponential relationship between a players "value" (win shares is good) and his salary.

Here is a link to a site which compared someones Win Shares to their salary (http://www.baseballgraphs.com/winshares/wsvalue.html). Its from 2003 but still...head to about 5 from the bottom of the list and see whos there.

Here is some partial info from last year Here (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/net-win-shares-value/)

[/ QUOTE ]
what was this supposed to prove? (i must have missed a post or two)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is talking about how A-Rod and Jeter are overpaid

[ThaSaltCracka]

Vlad.....

[NLSoldier]

Does any one else have any idea why Dead feels the need to reply to every single post in every single thread?

Scroll though this thread and you see a bunch of different posters, with a reply from Dead between just about every one of them.

Talk about things that make you sick...

[TeeJayORTj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Manny is overpaid...but so is Jeter, Bernie, Giambi, A-Rod, Brown...whats your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter and A-Rod are overpaid? How?

Jeter brings many intangibles to the Yankees, and A-Rod is the only true 40-40 guy in the history of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please go back to NYYFans.com (http://www.nyyfans.com) to talk with other people who think that "intangibles" are worth $19.6 million per year. Sure, that dive into the stands last year proves he should be the fourth highest paid player in baseball. He's a good player, but Captain Intangibles needs to stop his little jackknife away from the plate, butt thrust, called third strike move.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent Post

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nate Silver last year I think it was had an article talking about relating win shares to salary. It was an excellent article but due to BP having a worse search engine then here I can not find it. Hell it might have been two years ago.

Basically though it talks about there is an exponential relationship between a players "value" (win shares is good) and his salary.

Here is a link to a site which compared someones Win Shares to their salary (http://www.baseballgraphs.com/winshares/wsvalue.html). Its from 2003 but still...head to about 5 from the bottom of the list and see whos there.

Here is some partial info from last year Here (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/net-win-shares-value/)

[/ QUOTE ]
what was this supposed to prove? (i must have missed a post or two)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is talking about how A-Rod and Jeter are overpaid

[/ QUOTE ]
oh, i thought it was supposed to something meaningful

[Jack of Arcades]

Jesus, and you're telling people that they should stop posting immediately.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Manny is overpaid...but so is Jeter, Bernie, Giambi, A-Rod, Brown...whats your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter and A-Rod are overpaid? How?

Jeter brings many intangibles to the Yankees, and A-Rod is the only true 40-40 guy in the history of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please go back to NYYFans.com (http://www.nyyfans.com) to talk with other people who think that "intangibles" are worth $19.6 million per year. Sure, that dive into the stands last year proves he should be the fourth highest paid player in baseball. He's a good player, but Captain Intangibles needs to stop his little jackknife away from the plate, butt thrust, called third strike move.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do whatever the hell I want.

And I do happen to be a member of NYYfans.com

[TeeJayORTj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nate Silver last year I think it was had an article talking about relating win shares to salary. It was an excellent article but due to BP having a worse search engine then here I can not find it. Hell it might have been two years ago.

Basically though it talks about there is an exponential relationship between a players "value" (win shares is good) and his salary.

Here is a link to a site which compared someones Win Shares to their salary (http://www.baseballgraphs.com/winshares/wsvalue.html). Its from 2003 but still...head to about 5 from the bottom of the list and see whos there.

Here is some partial info from last year Here (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/net-win-shares-value/)

[/ QUOTE ]
what was this supposed to prove? (i must have missed a post or two)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is talking about how A-Rod and Jeter are overpaid

[/ QUOTE ]
oh, i thought it was supposed to something meaningful

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah good point...any reply to a post from Dead is likely to result in something meaningless

[TeeJayORTj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Manny is overpaid...but so is Jeter, Bernie, Giambi, A-Rod, Brown...whats your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter and A-Rod are overpaid? How?

Jeter brings many intangibles to the Yankees, and A-Rod is the only true 40-40 guy in the history of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please go back to NYYFans.com (http://www.nyyfans.com) to talk with other people who think that "intangibles" are worth $19.6 million per year. Sure, that dive into the stands last year proves he should be the fourth highest paid player in baseball. He's a good player, but Captain Intangibles needs to stop his little jackknife away from the plate, butt thrust, called third strike move.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do whatever the hell I want.

And I do happen to be a member of NYYfans.com

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me just say that I am speechless...I never saw that coming. To sum it up

Nixon is an above average RF and you would not find him on a tree

Bernie, Womack and Tino are allow arguably below average players at their positions at this stage in their career and could be found on the proverbial "tree"

Yes Manny is overpaid but so is Jeter, A-Rod, Bernie, Mussina and Giambi.

Im done with this.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OBP, same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO it's not the same thing.

In baseball statistics, on-base plus slugging (denoted by OPS) is defined by the sum of on base percentage (OBP) and slugging percentage (SLG).

You don't know enough about this topic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither do you. OPS...yawn.

[Vince Young]

That's ok, I'm not sure being seen in a positive light by you correlates with anything. You like Snoop Dogg, after all.

[Jack of Arcades]

Bernie Williams is light years ahead of Trot Nixon in career value and will likely end up this way.

[ThaSaltCracka]

you are right, I like successful people.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Bernie Williams is light years ahead of Trot Nixon in career value and will likely end up this way.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't understand how this is even arguable.

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, there are ways to compute this, you know. It's quite simple. Over the past ten years, the Red Sox have scored roughly 3% more runs at home than on the road. Meanwhile, the Yankees have scored roughly 3% less runs at home than on the road.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you show me where you found this? It doesn't surprise me at all that the Red Sox would score more at home simply beacuse of home field advantage but it does surprise me that the Yankees would score less.

[Jack of Arcades]

See baseball reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/parkadjust.shtml)

Look up team pages for park factors.

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
No one bitched when the Sox had the biggest payroll all throughout the 80s.



[/ QUOTE ]

source please

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
The salary cap in the NFL is avoided all the time. Lawyers find ways to massage it.

[/ QUOTE ]

source please

[MarkL444]

the yankees dont make me sick, its yankee fans that dont think baseball needs a salary cap that make me sick.

[sublime]

source please

hunch

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
the yankees dont make me sick, its yankee fans that dont think baseball needs a salary cap that make me sick.

[/ QUOTE ]
so they put in a salary cap, is that going to make pittsburgh , cleveland, tampa or any other team spend money?

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
the yankees dont make me sick, its yankee fans that dont think baseball needs a salary cap that make me sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Revenue Sharing
Unlike the NFL, baseball might not share all of its revenue. But the 300 million bucks a year it does share now are having a major effect.

Anybody think the Marlins would be a prospective NL East favorite without the $27 million in revenue-sharing dollars they'll get this year? Think the Twins would be the AL Central favorites without the $21 million they'll get?

The A's, according to sources, will get about $19 million. The Tigers: $17 million. The Reds: $15 million. The Padres: $8 million. The Rangers: $8 million.

And that doesn't even include the $20 million or so each team collects in national TV money. Or the $4 million they're about to get from the new XM radio deal. Or the $6 million to $8 million each team gets from the swelling central fund.

So you have some clubs taking in close to $50 million these days before they ever sell a ticket. And the only teams that are really hopeless are the clubs that won't plow all their MLB welfare money into payroll. The Devil Rays, for instance, are believed to be receiving $30 million in revenue sharing alone – and will barely even use all of that on their major-league salaries. That's their fault, not the system's fault.


ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2010302&num=2)

[ThaSaltCracka]

I just wanted to add that I think the current state of MLB is great(minus the roids mess /images/graemlins/tongue.gif), but finacially its great, and there is a lot to be excited about this year.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The salary cap in the NFL is avoided all the time. Lawyers find ways to massage it.

[/ QUOTE ]

source please

[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao.

It's common knowledge. I don't need to cite sources for common knowledge.

[Vince Young]

Well can you at least name a case where it's happened, or are you just going to keep talking out of your ass?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
the Sox had the biggest payroll all throughout the 80s.

Please cite your source.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the Sox had the biggest payroll all throughout the 80s.

Please cite your source.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't.

[/ QUOTE ]
hes going on a hunch

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The salary cap in the NFL is avoided all the time. Lawyers find ways to massage it.

[/ QUOTE ]

source please

[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao.

It's common knowledge. I don't need to cite sources for common knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it common knowledge that the yank bats were going to get to wakefield early and often as well?

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
The salary cap in the NFL is avoided all the time. Lawyers find ways to massage it.

[/ QUOTE ]

source please

[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao.

It's common knowledge. I don't need to cite sources for common knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it common knowledge that the yank bats were going to get to wakefield early and often as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i mean they usually beat him up so bad!

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The salary cap in the NFL is avoided all the time. Lawyers find ways to massage it.

[/ QUOTE ]

source please

[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao.

It's common knowledge. I don't need to cite sources for common knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it common knowledge that the yank bats were going to get to wakefield early and often as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will answer this question once you post a larger picture of your avatar.

[plaster8]

The real key, if they ever instituted a salary cap, would be to include a salary floor. Make teams spend a minimum amount, so they can't just pocket the MLB welfare.

BTW, I have no problem with the Yankees spending more than everyone else, but if you had a reasonable cap, with a floor, you could cut back the disparity between the haves and the have-nots. I just think it's wrong that the Yankees payroll exceeds that of the five lowest-payroll teams combined.

I'd be perfectly happy if the highest payroll in MLB was no more than double the lowest, instead of the six or seven times it is now.

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The salary cap in the NFL is avoided all the time. Lawyers find ways to massage it.

[/ QUOTE ]

source please

[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao.

It's common knowledge. I don't need to cite sources for common knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you do, b/c you're a fool who lacks credibility. Please name a situation when the NFL salary cap, over the long run, has 'been avoided' as you said.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The salary cap in the NFL is avoided all the time. Lawyers find ways to massage it.

[/ QUOTE ]

source please

[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao.

It's common knowledge. I don't need to cite sources for common knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

On a yearly basis, there are obviously times where the salary cap number is "avoided" (this is done by pro-rating the signing bonuses given out to players). However, this is made up for in later years, where the team is up against the salary cap without spending anywhere near the amount they can. This is completely legal according to NFL rules

This is not avoiding the salary cap. (Although I'm sure you're going to come in and say that it is, because the team is paying out more than the cap number in a certain year)

The NFL salary cap basically gives the teams the ability to choose their own salary cap within a specific year, as long as they stay below the total dollar amount over a period of years. Example:

Over 5 years the teams can spend a total of $400 million dollars. The "salary cap" is set at $70 million the first year, and goes up $5 million each year.

Team A decides to spend $120 million in year 1 on player bonuses and salaries. They spend $55 million in salaries (all of which count against the cap in year 1) and $65 million in bonuses. The bonuses are spread out over the next 5 years, so only $13 million counts against the cap this year. This is fine according the the NFL rules. Sure, Team A gets an advantage this year because they can get better players with the higher bonuses. However, in subsequent years, they aren't able to sign as many or as quality free agents, because they'll have $13 million dollars less each year due to the bonuses they gave out in Year 1.

They can rework contracts all they want, but in the end they'll end up with one (or more) years where they're in salary cap hell (think 49ers of a few years ago, or the Titans of today). They have no cap room, have to release good players in order to get under the salary cap, and can't afford to sign any free agents for above the league minimum.

Truly "avoiding" the salary cap is not allowed and results in punishment (see: Denver Broncos losing draft picks)

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's simple supply and demand.

A-Rod is the best in the game. Therefore, he makes the most money.

There are very few A-Rod's. There are plenty of Gabe Kapler's and Trot Nixon's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, mediocre players like Kapler and Nixon have rings while A-Rod has none. When A-Rod stops bringing every team he plays for down, I'll be impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine, kyro.

Jeter&gt; Nixon and Kapler. Jeter has 4 rings.

So your argument is ridic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter is a better player than both those guys. But A-Rod gets paid an exorbitant amount of money to put up decent numbers and not much else. He doesn't make his team better. And as much as I despise the Yankees, Jeter grows on me because that's EXACTLY what he does. I'd pay more for Jeter than A-Rod.

I'm not saying that Nixon and Kapler are better than A-Rod. They're not. They do what they're paid to do. They're role players on a solid team and they have rings to show for it.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's simple supply and demand.

A-Rod is the best in the game. Therefore, he makes the most money.

There are very few A-Rod's. There are plenty of Gabe Kapler's and Trot Nixon's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, mediocre players like Kapler and Nixon have rings while A-Rod has none. When A-Rod stops bringing every team he plays for down, I'll be impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus, do you guys even play poker? What the hell?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what the point of this question is. Regardless, I'll answer it as best as I can.

Yes.

[DougOzzzz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's simple supply and demand.

A-Rod is the best in the game. Therefore, he makes the most money.

There are very few A-Rod's. There are plenty of Gabe Kapler's and Trot Nixon's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, mediocre players like Kapler and Nixon have rings while A-Rod has none. When A-Rod stops bringing every team he plays for down, I'll be impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine, kyro.

Jeter&gt; Nixon and Kapler. Jeter has 4 rings.

So your argument is ridic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter is a better player than both those guys. But A-Rod gets paid an exorbitant amount of money to put up decent numbers and not much else. He doesn't make his team better. And as much as I despise the Yankees, Jeter grows on me because that's EXACTLY what he does. I'd pay more for Jeter than A-Rod.

I'm not saying that Nixon and Kapler are better than A-Rod. They're not. They do what they're paid to do. They're role players on a solid team and they have rings to show for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Give me a break. A-Rod is twice the player Jeter is. The Yanks would probably win an extra game or two if they switched A-Rod and Jeter defensively.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's simple supply and demand.

A-Rod is the best in the game. Therefore, he makes the most money.

There are very few A-Rod's. There are plenty of Gabe Kapler's and Trot Nixon's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, mediocre players like Kapler and Nixon have rings while A-Rod has none. When A-Rod stops bringing every team he plays for down, I'll be impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine, kyro.

Jeter&gt; Nixon and Kapler. Jeter has 4 rings.

So your argument is ridic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter is a better player than both those guys. But A-Rod gets paid an exorbitant amount of money to put up decent numbers and not much else. He doesn't make his team better. And as much as I despise the Yankees, Jeter grows on me because that's EXACTLY what he does. I'd pay more for Jeter than A-Rod.

I'm not saying that Nixon and Kapler are better than A-Rod. They're not. They do what they're paid to do. They're role players on a solid team and they have rings to show for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Give me a break. A-Rod is twice the player Jeter is. The Yanks would probably win an extra game or two if they switched A-Rod and Jeter defensively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pure physical talent? You're probably right. I stand by my claim however. And I think most Yankees fans would agree.

[DougOzzzz]

A few points (most of which have already been stated).

1) The Yankees payroll is ridiculous. It's a full 70% higher than the next highest payroll, and over 3 times higher than the median payroll. Any team can win spending that kind of money.

2) I am a Red Sox fan, but Trot Nixon's career doesn't even come close to Bernie Williams'. That said, at this point, Nixon is the better player.

3) The Yankees have alot of dead money. Giambi, Brown, Jeter, Williams, Mussina... that's like 90 million spent on guys that are only slightly above average.

4) A-Rod is better than Manny. His contract is also better than Manny's. While Manny's bat is as good as A-Rod's, A-Rod is a MUCH better defender, he plays a more difficult position (he SHOULD be playing shortstop, which would make his value even higher), he's a better base-runner. A-Rod has the complete package. Next to Bonds he's the best player in the game today.

5) The Sox are doing a much better job lately of managing their payroll. Their payroll decreased 2 out of the last 3 years, yet they've gotten better. Manny takes up a large portion of their payroll - he's overpaid, but at least he's still productive (unlike some of the Yankees huge contracts). They don't do stupid things like sign league average pitchers to $10 mil/year contracts (though signing Varitek for $40 mil/4 years was essentially a PR move).

That said, the Yankee's aren't a stupid ball club. They've taken some risks because they can afford to. Risks other teams couldn't afford to take. Several of them haven't worked out. If they had, they'd be a dominant team right now.

[Dead]

Jeter and Mussina are only slightly above average players? Jeter is still one of the best SS's in the game, and Moose is one of the better pitchers.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
A few points (most of which have already been stated).

1) The Yankees payroll is ridiculous. It's a full 70% higher than the next highest payroll, and over 3 times higher than the median payroll. Any team can win spending that kind of money.

[/ QUOTE ]
overpaying for a bunch of players does not make your team any better than if you paid them their fair value.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Jeter and Mussina are only slightly above average players? Jeter is still one of the best SS's in the game, and Moose is one of the better pitchers.

[/ QUOTE ]
moose is done, fyi

[Dead]

Moose is going to scrape together enough victories to get into the HOF.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Moose is going to scrape together enough victories to get into the HOF.

[/ QUOTE ]
is that a hunch?
at least you agree hes done

[kenberman]

I'd like it if you would reply to the posts in this thread that destroy your nonsensical ramblings, rather than you continuing to post bs all over the place.

[InchoateHand]

Specifically which one made you sick? Or did you pull a train?

[Jack of Arcades]

Pure physical talent? No, offensive and defensive production.

Most Yankee fans would agree with you because they're idiots.

[Dead]

I saw a lot of idiotic Braves fans last night.

Obviously, A-Rod is superior to almost everyone in the game in defensive efficiency, and he is up there in offensive efficiency as well.

[Jack of Arcades]

Most fans are idiots.