I hit the nut flush with a paired board late in tourney

[billyjex]

Empire $7500 guaranteed last night ($55), we're down to 14 out of 150. Pay out for 11th is $75, $2075 for first, so you know where I'm aiming.

Relevant stacks:
Hero: 12k
UTG limper: 11k
Button: 32k (chip leader)

Average is 9k, I have about the 4/5th biggest stack.

I am dealt A /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the BB. UTG and the button limp w/ 400/800 blinds.

Flop is K /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif. I bet out 1200 into the 2800 pot, both just call.

6400 pot. Turn is 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I check, UTG bets 2200, Button calls, I call.

Pot is 10800. The river is the 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

What is my action here? Do I play this carefully or do I try to get alot of chips here? I was confused as how to approach this river as I figured to have the best hand, but was somewhat scared of UTG. He could have a small pair.

[DVC Calif]

I think your seeing monsters.

KK raises PF.

22/66 bets outs to your flop raise against the flush draw.

88 folds to your flop bet (besides you have an 8).

I make a value bet of t2800 and call/push and reraises.

If your afraid of quad ducks, you need to pay him off for playing this hand so wacky (and allowing him to see a cheap flop.)

[TheTimeIsUp]

I'd push here. If somebody else hit their flush, they are paying you off. As well as trips, and AK. The only question is how you extract chips, not if. If you fear a boat this late, that is extremely tight.

[Trainwreck]

I'd check that river to give them a chance to make a move on it, rather then PUSH and have them all fold and get nothing, plus this could wind up saving you from the rail. (very unlikely, but a factor to consider)

>TW<

[sloth469]

How does it keep you from the rail? If one of the others pushes do you really not call? Bottom line: a boat is getting my entire stack in this spot.

[Trainwreck]

If it's checked through by a Vince with a low boat.

That's it, I said 'very unlikely'...

I've seen some real river whimps, so I am not completely stunned by much anymore...

Did I just make VINCE a new slang word for MORON? YES! Sorry! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

>TW<

[Crooked Paul]

I'd make a small bet, looking for someone who played trips wacky or made two pair to make a relatively cheap call. Pushing practically forces everyone to fold, leaving the pot as-is. Checking doesn't seem very likely to induce bets here unless someone actually made a lower flush, in which case of course call. I agree with other posters: no real reason to fear the boat here.


Crooked

[billyjex]

Well the results are pretty interesting for this hand. I didn't know if I was being results oriented but I guess I was.

This sounds kinda dumb, but I was so excited to hit my flush I didn't see the lowly 2 had paired. So I though I had the nuts. I don't really know why, but I decided to C/R the river. UTG bet 1700, button called, I pushed, both called.

UTG flips over 66. But he didn't win.

The button called on EVERY street, even the river, with KK!

Bizarre, if the button played KK like he should have I wouldn't even have seen the flop.

[DVC Calif]

Online poker is rigged.

[schwza]

you've got to be willing to get all the chips in here. the only question is how to get the most when you're ahead.

i don't like checking. it looks like utg has some kind of made hand, maybe something like KQ. button looks like a draw, as do you. so i don't think that utg is going to bet out if you check to him, and if button does in fact have a flush, he'll raise your bet anyway.

i like a smallish bet of about 3k. the ideal situation is that utg calls with a made hand and then button pushes with a smaller flush. i think you're almost certain to get called in at least one spot with the small bet, where a bigger one might fold out two medium made hands.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Well the results are pretty interesting for this hand. I didn't know if I was being results oriented but I guess I was.

This sounds kinda dumb, but I was so excited to hit my flush I didn't see the lowly 2 had paired. So I though I had the nuts. I don't really know why, but I decided to C/R the river. UTG bet 1700, button called, I pushed, both called.

UTG flips over 66. But he didn't win.

The button called on EVERY street, even the river, with KK!

Bizarre, if the button played KK like he should have I wouldn't even have seen the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your push was what got you into trouble. You've got a significant bet and a caller. Granted, you might be up against trips/two pair and a smaller flush, but why risk all of your chips with a non-nut hand?

[billyjex]

Read what I said.. I didn't notice the board had paired. I never ever misread boards but I think I was too excited I hit my flush and didn't really take into account the 2 on the flop anyways. I would have played it a little different if I knew I had the non-nuts.

I still asked this question as if I knew the board was paired because it was an interesting situation and if I could read a board I wouldn't really know what to do.

[ZootMurph]

I'm getting as many chips in here as possible. Doubtful anyone has a set of two pair before the river, otherwise you'd be sure to see a raise on the turn.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
why risk all of your chips with a non-nut hand?


[/ QUOTE ]

you're gonna spend all those chips drawing to a flush and then check-calling when it gets there. ugh.

you need to get the chips in any way you can here.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why risk all of your chips with a non-nut hand?


[/ QUOTE ]

you're gonna spend all those chips drawing to a flush and then check-calling when it gets there. ugh.

you need to get the chips in any way you can here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're drawing to a flush, but you still have to be careful when the board pairs. Same thing happened to me, only in a limit tourney. I caught my Ace-high flush but two other players held A/7 and there were two 7's on the board and an Ace. Whoops!

What I'm saying is that you aren't going to lose any additional money by just calling the previous bets, since the other two players have already acted.

If you push all-in, what do you expect to be called with? Perhaps a smaller flush, but anyone with two pair or trips may fold against your flush. This means the only people likely to call you are:

1. Smaller flush
2. Full House

As such, pushing all-in is risky since you're more likely to lose money when called than to win it. And when you push, you aren't going to win much more against the players you do have beat, why risk your tournament in that situation?

Just my personal feeling, I can see wanting to bump up the pot and get as many chips as you can, but I think it pays to consider who's actually going to call your push.

[schwza]

my prefered line is to bet the river and then call a push, as i think a one-pair hand will find a fold if you c/r the river.

but the way the hand played out, i think you're going to see a non-nut flush more often than a boat. flat-calling the flop (utg) or both the turn and river (other guy) with a set is not unheard of, but it's not the standard play.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
my prefered line is to bet the river and then call a push, as i think a one-pair hand will find a fold if you c/r the river.

but the way the hand played out, i think you're going to see a non-nut flush more often than a boat. flat-calling the flop (utg) or both the turn and river (other guy) with a set is not unheard of, but it's not the standard play.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's my point exactly, a one pair or two pair hand will likely fold to your check-raise. So it's likely if you're called that it's 50/50 you're beat (smaller flush or a full house)

Granted, both sets were played oddly, so it is hard in that situation to realize you're up against the full house.

[fnord_too]

Before I read the thread here are some observations:

If faced with an all in and you are beat, you are going out.
I have gone out hitting the nut flush the same time someone hits a boat. It is far from impossible and definitely sucks.

UTG took the lead last time. One play here is to check, let UTG bet, hope the button calls, and either call or push. (I can't help but think you were up against a boat here since the hand got posted.) I push since any bet will commit UTG so I figure to get paid off by at least him when I am ahead quite often.

The other line is this: If you think UTG will call if you bet, either going for an overcall from the button with a full house or call with a marginal hand he may not bet, lead out for about 3500 (which I think is close to 1/2 your stack right now). This is definitely the line to take if you think the river will freeze your opponents on the river unless they have at least trips. (That is, if you think 2 pair or TPTK betting or a completely bluff are unlikely.)

[WinBig]

Is it safe to assume you have zero folding equity on the turn if you check-raise all-in after the button calls a smallish bet from UTG? Would this be a risky play on the turn if you were only up against UTG who may not be pot committed? How about on the flop since you are first to act?