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twankerr
04-11-2005, 07:41 PM
(x-posted in MTT)
I'm a pretty horrid O8 player and an even worse MTT player. My major difficulty in this hand is the fact that I should have never been involved, but at the same time once I was involved I find it hard to deal with. Anyways, here it goes...

It is just after the third break and the we have just reached the money. 18 get paid and 18 are left. There is no pay increase until 9th place. Stakes are 4k/8k (making the SB 2k).

Villian in the CO has 35k and has just joined the table, I have 28k

BB had 500 and is all in. Folded to Villian who raises, making it 8000 to go. The button calls all-in for about 3k.

Hero is in the SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif

The pot has about 13500 in it. I thought maybe the Villian was on a steal with anything, so I figured that I was getting about 2:1 and I thought that I may be able to get all the money in if I hit something. I call and we take the flop.

Flop has about 20k in the pot and comes down 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. I bet, villian raises. I pause for a minute and decide my hand is best. I have about 16k behind me, facing 4k. I raise and Villian calls.

Turn comes 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif and I put 8k in (leaving me with like 400) and Villian calls.

River hits A/images/graemlins/heart.gif and my last 400 goes in.

Thoughts???

Buzz
04-12-2005, 07:15 AM
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MTT

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twankerr - What's MTT?

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Thoughts???

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For all I know, you might have won with your 2nd nut flush. However, whether you did or not, I don't think you should have been seeing the flop with the hand.

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I thought maybe the Villian was on a steal with anything,

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That's a distinct possibility. But with your particular (very poor) starting hand, I think you have to let Villain get away with a possible steal.

Another distinct possibility is Villain is not trying to steal.

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so I figured that I was getting about 2:1 and I thought that I may be able to get all the money in if I hit something.

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That's true. But you're basically playing the hand one-on-one with Villain, who possibly is on a steal, but who possibly does have a decent one-on-one hand, even if on a steal. You, on the other hand, do not have a good one-on-one hand. (Neither do you have a good starting hand for multiple opponent play).

The trouble with your hand, besides that it has no possibilities for low, is those two middle cards, the six and the nine. You just can't play hands with two middle cards, unless you have A2, suited A3, or suited AA to go with them - and even then, they're mediocre or worse. Honest.

The double suited aspect of your hand is nice, but not enough. And you should much prefer at least one of your flush draws to be to an ace or at least to a king. Not only does you hand not have an ace - it doesn't even have a king - and no low possibility. It's simply a very poor starting hand for Omaha-8.

At any rate, it's true that you're getting about two to one to see the flop, but with your starting cards there's a strong possibility you'll catch a part of the flop (as you did here), get trapped (as you did here), and end up going all-in (as you did here). That's sort of typical when you play starting hands with two middle cards, double suited or not. (I consider sixes, sevens, eights, and nines "middle cards").

You would have to be very lucky to play those starting cards at this point in the tournament and end up at the final table.

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Flop comes down 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. I bet

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Ouch.

There are two low cards on the flop, actually two middle cards, but they count for low, and <font color="white">_</font>that (because they count for low) is probably the main reason why you get in trouble playing middle cards.

Since it's about four to one (780 to 210) that low will be enabled on the turn or river, you're probably playing for half the pot. And basically against one opponent. Assuming your opponent makes low, your opponent must have some of those low cards, so figure low will get there three times out of four (instead of four times out of five). Whatever. Any money you push in, you're likely to simply get that same money back when you do win for high, with Villain getting half the pot for low.

In other words, you're about three to one to break even with the fresh money you're investing when you <font color="white">_</font>do have the best high hand.

However, you're certainly not guaranteed to end up with the best high hand.

Thus you probably have nothing to gain and everything to lose by betting. (You don't hardly think Villain is going to fold to your bet here, do you?)

At any rate, you bet this flop. Ouch.

And then Villain raises. Double ouch.

Now you're trapped.

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Turn comes 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif and I put 8k in

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I'm not sure why you did that. Seems ill advised if not downright suicidal. That seven of spades probably helped your opponent more than you.

River hits A/images/graemlins/heart.gif and my last 400 goes in.

I'm not sure why you did that either. Probably moot. If you hadn't bet, Villain probably puts you all-in anyhow, but maybe not. You could at least have given Villain a chance to make the mistake of not putting you all-in.

In summary, I think you made four poor choices in a row here, the worst being on the first betting round and the second worst on the third betting round.

Sorry to be so critical, but I assume you want it straight.

And this is just my opinion anyhow.

Buzz

TylerD
04-12-2005, 07:25 AM
MTT = multi table tournament.

gergery
04-12-2005, 05:05 PM
I agree with Buzz.

Playing from the SB preflop, reraising the flop and betting the turn are all horrible decisions.

Betting the flop is ok, but my preference would be check-call the flop and hope for a favorable turn card.

twankerr
04-12-2005, 06:23 PM
I appreciate all replys. Thank you.