$10+1: KJo on the bubble short-stacked

[spentrent]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1985)
SB (t2160)
BB (t2735)
Hero (t1120)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero ???

[Bigwig]

Push.

[spentrent]

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Push.

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What's your range here? Any two? I'm thinking any two.

[The Yugoslavian]

Dude, it's King-Jack NOT suited....of course you push.

Yugoslav

[halis123456789]

Never, never, never push here. They dominate you in chips and they'll probably call and dominate the hand too. A6o, 77, anything. Wouldn't it be better if you waited one more hand and hit A9s in the BB? You have to wait. KJo is a loser, it is too easily dominated. You are UTG you could have TT and AQ sitting behind you, and someone could get busted out anyway. Just FOLD. Even if you miss a hand in the BB and the SB, you still have 820T to give it one last shot.

[spentrent]

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Dude, it's King-Jack NOT suited....of course you push.

Yugoslav

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Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to reply Yugo.

[citanul]

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Never, never, never push here. They dominate you in chips and they'll probably call and dominate the hand too. A6o, 77, anything. Wouldn't it be better if you waited one more hand and hit A9s in the BB? You have to wait. KJo is a loser, it is too easily dominated. You are UTG you could have TT and AQ sitting behind you, and someone could get busted out anyway. Just FOLD. Even if you miss a hand in the BB and the SB, you still have 820T to give it one last shot.

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please god, anyone who reads the above:

here goes, my advice is that this hand is a clear push. really really really clear. i would not push any two here i don't think.

but, i'm fine if someone has a good reason they feel they should fold KJo here. for instance, if KJo is their unlucky hand or something, and they never play it ever ever ever. or if KJo once raped their sister. or if King Jackoff is what the kids in college called you, so you can't bear to have the chat box say something like "blah wins with High Card King, Jack Kicker" and then have everyone say "way to go King Jackoff." or a variety of other reasons. but folding here because you are afraid of a better hand being behind you is ludicrously bad. i mean really really really bad. a simple analysis of the reasoning that the above poster used should reveal that quite quickly. if you were tempted by the poster's advice, please go try to figure out what the chances that EITHER TT OR AQ OR ANY HAND BETTER THAN KJo FOR THAT MATTER are behind you, let alone two of them. The, after you do that, go figure out what the chances you get dealt a better hand than KJo in the bb are.

suddenly i'm hoping that the poster was posting this as some sort of disinformation campaign.

citanul

[pokerlaw]

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or if King Jackoff is what the kids in college called you

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hysterical.

[halis123456789]

you don't understand the short-hand all-in game as well as i (admittedly) think i do. pushing here is a bad play, you are going to lose more tournaments, JUST LIKE THAT.

you're first to act, you have absolutely NO info. if you have a beautiful Kd Jd, someone with a lot of chips could call you on a whim with an ugly Ac 2h and you would lose 53% of the time. and being a huge favorite they are probably right to make that call.

which leads me to my next point, let's say the next hand you are dealt A9o in BB and the same chip leader limps in. you push, he calls and turns over A8-A2, he is officially dominated, which is what you want in the first place. you can afford to wait until 820 to find that ace b/c when you double up 1600 is still better than 1100. plus any pair is an all-in easy, long before King Jackoff.

things can really scale out of control from the table if you're patient. if you catch a good ace and double thru a weaker one, if you get a big hand in the next round and go all in, you are probably getting called, and double up again. i have finished ITM or in 1st by folding KJ UTG in a short situation.

[Unarmed]

If anyone doubts it, this guy is joking.

[Bigwig]

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Push.

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What's your range here? Any two? I'm thinking any two.

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Hell no. What gives you that idea?

[spentrent]

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If anyone doubts it, this guy is joking.

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I was fishing for someone to say "I can't believe you're thinking about this, KJo is a clear push." I hadn't considered the possibility of folding here UTG with less than 4BBs in my stack. But I certainly hope the guy is NOT joking because I get a lot of value from observing the debate.

That said, my unhealthy affection for ladies of the night earned me the nickname King Crabs in college so I would have no superstitious reason for folding anything other than K3. I can only think Jebus above that AA isn't known as Clappy McSyphilis.

[The Yugoslavian]

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Dude, it's King-Jack NOT suited....of course you push.

Yugoslav

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Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to reply Yugo.

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I do what I can, man, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yeah, my pushing range depends on the table. I can't think of any semi-recent table where I'd fold KJo here though. I think it's a pretty clear push.

I *would not* push with any two, however, and can't really think of any recent table I was at where I would push any 2 here given the context...

Yugoslav
Back to the grind and my busy schedule, /images/graemlins/grin.gif...

[spentrent]

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Push.

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What's your range here? Any two? I'm thinking any two.

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Hell no. What gives you that idea?

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I figure BB has no need to call with anything other than a premium hand right now. If I fold now, I will be sacrificing my last ounce of FE and perhaps conceding defeat. I'm not married to that notion so don't take that as an absolute statement.

So what's your range in this situation?

[The Yugoslavian]

You'll still have FE even after folding here...seriously.

That being said, I think Hero's range can be fairly large considering there are 3 left to act....but I'm not pushing anything close to 'any two' here - maybe any ace, any face cards, any mid-high pairs...some suited connectors perhaps.

This all is very dependent on the table and texture of the game so far. There are tables where I'd be pushing a much larger range than what I alluded to above...and there are tables where I wouldn't.

Also, don't underestimate the ability of a table to walk the blinds to you....or to let you take them after a limp.

Try to view the blinds as your friends...being in them isn't always a bad thing.

Yugoslav

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, my pushing range depends on the table. I can't think of any semi-recent table where I'd fold KJo here though. I think it's a pretty clear push.

I *would not* push with any two, however, and can't really think of any recent table I was at where I would push any 2 here given the context...

Yugoslav
Back to the grind and my busy schedule, /images/graemlins/grin.gif...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clarifying!

I am admitting here and now that I am dropping any notion that I have any ability to play single-table tournament poker, so my sarcasm detector's sensitivity knob has been twisted back to zero.

That young punk who sez holla all the time pointed out a few threads ago that I've made too many absolute statements with the implication that I don't have the experience to back them up. I have eaten my hat and agreed. So I don't get sarcasm anymore. I'm done with presuming things; ready to absorb and analyze...

[halis123456789]

if anyone doubts it this guy IS joking

[halis123456789]

for the record i think it's a push. nobody is too huge of a chip lead, anyone that calls without something precious is going to get a nice chunk taken out of their ass if they are wrong.

[spentrent]

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for the record i think it's a push. nobody is too huge of a chip lead, anyone that calls without something precious is going to get a nice chunk taken out of their ass if they are wrong.

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All I can say regarding that elaborate multi-post joke is BRAVO. You had me going there, hoss.

BRAVO.