Why are there so few books on no-limit hold'em?

[FlyingStart]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, and relativly new to hold'em.

So far I have played no-limit, because I thought and felt that this was the game to be played both for money and excitement. I wanted to learn fast, and so I bought some book that were highly recommended. One for beginners, one for more advanced concepts and one covering small stakes hold'em. The titles respectivly: The Complete Book of Hold 'Em Poker by Gary Carson, Hold'em Poker For Advanced Players by David Sklansky & Mason Malmuth, and Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller.

What I have now realized is that none of these books cover no-limit hold'em in more than a general hold'em way, and I'm feeling somewhat annoyed and puzzled..

Why are there so few books on no-limit, when there are som many players playing no-limit?
And is there equally much money to be made in limit hold'em?

A reply from one of the authors would be great, but any other comment or information is nice also

[InchoateHand]

Nice second post. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try the search function.

[deacsoft]

It's much easier to write a complete book about limit hold'em due to the structure of the betting. It is (in most cases) clear cut. There are 5 rounds of betting. You can bet "x" amount for the first two rounds and "y" amount for the last three. There are "z" amount of bets/raises allowed in each round. Thus, there is often a definable correct and incorrect play. I'm not sure exactly how to go about explaining this, but I think you might get the idea.

In no-limit there is no way of predicting 100% accurately how the betting may change from round to round and player to player. There is much that can't be defined because the game is extremely situational. Therefore, it's a difficult subject to write an instructional book for. There are certain situations where one play is correct and others are not but it often resorts to judgement calls based on play, notes, patterns, etc. Again, no-limit is very situational.

[FlyingStart]

InchoateHand: Heh, thx /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Deacsoft: I have given what you said some thought and read around a little and it's starting to make sense. It was the tactical and strategical elements of Hold 'Em that got me interested in the first place, so maybe Limit Hold 'Em isn't such a bad idea. The large pots in no-limit is tempting tho, heh.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
Thus, there is often a definable correct and incorrect play. I'm not sure exactly how to go about explaining this, but I think you might get the idea.



[/ QUOTE ]

Using college exams as a parallel, it's almost as if limit decisions are T/F questions and no-limit decisions are an essay exam. The variables and possibilities are much greater. Similarly, I think that teaching and learning limit is much more of a science, while no-limit is more of an art.

The other reason for the lack of no-limit books is supply and demand. Until very recently, few people in the US played no-limit. As Mason discusses in some of his essays, the edge of a good player over a poor player is much greater in no-limit than in limit, so that poor players go broke a lot faster in no-limit. Until the introduction of "baby" NL (capped buy-in games) on the Internet, there were very few no-limit cash games available.

The huge growth of tournaments, most of which are no-limit, is also a recent development. This is the result of the great success of the WPT and the WSOP on TV, and of the ability of online poker to offer games ranging from huge tournaments to $5 S&Gs. B&Ms can't afford to tie up a table and a dealer to spread S&Gs.

So, before cheap tournaments and online S&Gs and baby NL games led to a huge growth in NL players, there was no market for NL books. The demand is there now, and you can see supply starting to catch up. Before this year, about the only alternatives were SS1, Sklansky's tournament book and the Reuben/Ciaffone big bet book. From what I've read on this forum, there are likely to be a dozen new NL books by the end of the year.

[deacsoft]

Excellent post!

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi FlyingStart:

The reason there isn't much written is that no limit as a cash game was dead for at least 20 years. Now that there is a resurgence, the books will be coming out.

Best wishes,
Mason

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
It's much easier to write a complete book about limit hold'em due to the structure of the betting. It is (in most cases) clear cut. There are 5 rounds of betting. You can bet "x" amount for the first two rounds and "y" amount for the last three.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a no-limit player I was unaware of this fifth betting round in limit hold'em. Can you explain it in more detail? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[InchoateHand]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's much easier to write a complete book about limit hold'em due to the structure of the betting. It is (in most cases) clear cut. There are 5 rounds of betting. You can bet "x" amount for the first two rounds and "y" amount for the last three.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a no-limit player I was unaware of this fifth betting round in limit hold'em. Can you explain it in more detail? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he must be one of those I-don't-need-no-math players.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice second post. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Try the search function.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice 1,469th post.

Besides, the search function of this forum is known to be almost unusable (try searching for excel charts for example); the advanced search tips are actually incorrect (use a + symbol, get back every thread in the forum).

-ptmusic

[stigmata]

[ QUOTE ]
try searching for excel charts for example

[/ QUOTE ]

Searching for ".xls" produces meaningful results.

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's much easier to write a complete book about limit hold'em due to the structure of the betting. It is (in most cases) clear cut. There are 5 rounds of betting. You can bet "x" amount for the first two rounds and "y" amount for the last three.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a no-limit player I was unaware of this fifth betting round in limit hold'em. Can you explain it in more detail? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh, check that. Make it 4 rounds...
*sigh* this getting up early stuff is killing me...

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
try searching for excel charts for example

[/ QUOTE ]

Searching for ".xls" produces meaningful results.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, and good idea, if you're lucky enough to have the excel charts you might be looking for posted exactly as ".xls". But usually the poster won't use the suffix in his text or link, and even so, it might have nothing to do with a chart.

How about the OP search - how would one go about searching for No Limit Texas Hold 'Em Books in this forum's search engine? Fat chance.

I know of no way to accurately search for even two words; no other search engine I've ever seen is so limited/flawed.

Plus, the way the results are shown is ridiculous as well -
no known number of results, and every single post is listed instead of just the original post for each thread.

Kind of topic-jacking, I know, but doesn't Google have some way of searching a specific web domain (like the entire twoplustwo site)?

The CONTENT of the website is great, but the software is quite poor compared to other forums. They should just switch the software.

-ptmusic

[stigmata]

OK.

The search function is totally cantakerous. Agreed. But you can get results from it, with a couple of tricks. For the search you suggested:

1) Ctrl + left click on the mid/high stakes and low stakes No Limit forums, and the Books & Publications forum - this selects the three relevant forums

2) Put the following line in the search field:
+no +limit +books -"Re:"

3) Select "In subject" only.

4) Select "Newer than 1 year"

Bingo! /images/graemlins/cool.gif Very, very sweet results.....


For the excel thing, just search "excel .xls" (without the +). To just use google, append your google search with the following:
site:twoplustwo.com

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
OK.

The search function is totally cantakerous. Agreed. But you can get results from it, with a couple of tricks. For the search you suggested:

1) Ctrl + left click on the mid/high stakes and low stakes No Limit forums, and the Books & Publications forum - this selects the three relevant forums

2) Put the following line in the search field:
+no +limit +books -"Re:"

3) Select "In subject" only.

4) Select "Newer than 1 year"

Bingo! /images/graemlins/cool.gif Very, very sweet results.....


For the excel thing, just search "excel .xls" (without the +). To just use google, append your google search with the following:
site:twoplustwo.com

[/ QUOTE ]

GIVE THAT MAN A CIGAR!!!! This is so much better than any official tips, even in forum stickies.

The google thing works great too.

I still don't get your excel example. Are you using the quotation marks? With them, all I get is your last post! Without them, I get every post in the forum.... Are you using subject-only?

-ptmusic

[stigmata]

Glad to be of service /images/graemlins/smile.gif

You got me a bit on the excel one though /images/graemlins/confused.gif I guess the best thing I can think of is, say you were searching for a SNG spreadsheet, do the following:
Search in single table tournament forum, in subject and body, newer than 1 year, with:
+" excel " -"Re:"

And that should find you the new AleoMagus spreadsheet.

It did take me about 3 months to work out how to use the search function properly.... I don't know how they expect Noobs to be able to use it (the people who need it the most). In particular, they should include some examples in the "advanced search tips".