Folded AKo preflop - Correct?

[adamstewart]

I was in a 46 person live tourney on the weekend - a friendly tourney amongst school friends. Out of the entire field, only a handful were actually "seasoned" players. The rest were total fish who know likely learned how to play poker by watching WPT.

There are maybe 25-30 people left. I am just moved to a new table, so very little reads on the other players.

Tourney payouts are that top 8 get money.

Blinds are currently $10/$20, and I have about $1300 in chips (which is about 'average').

I am dealt AKo in Big Blind.

EP player goes All-in for around $700. The button calls his all-in (I'm not sure how much money he had left).

I fold.


Was this the correct play?

Discuss...


Adam

[schwza]

first, you should know how many chips the button has (ask when he pushes).

if he has fewer than the EP pusher, i'd call. home game players love to splash around with bad hands. even if you lose, you'll still have a very workable stack.

[adamstewart]

Ya, sorry... i just can't remember how many chips he had.... but he covered the EP all-in.



Adam

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Ya, sorry... i just can't remember how many chips he had.... but he covered the EP all-in.



Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

i didn't mean to give oyu a hard time for not remembering now. my posts are all full of "i have no reads b/c i don't remember crap." i just meant that at the time, it's something that should have played into your decision.

[halis123456789]

Absolutely correct to fold. You just moved to the table, so you have no reason to suspect he is giving anything up. with blinds at 10-20 he is not exactly hurting enough to just putting 700 in the pot in EP. You have another guy calling on the button who might just show you AK or AQ which steals some of your outs. Why gamble half your stack (or more) when you are sitting pretty?

[betgo]

Given the type of tournament, if the early position player just open raised allin for 23xBB and was called, I think this is an easy push with AK.

Against good players with normal raises and reraises allin, I would generally fold AK with 2 players allin, unless I was pot committed.

[Phil2]

AK is a speculative hand that I like to be pushing, not calling with. I would dump here also. No reads hurts but I don’t think it matters. Be the aggressor with AK. Don’t gamble half your stack in this spot, especially if you play better than most people at your table. You should be pushing them around, not vice versa.

[Loci]

A/K is a hand to call all ins, not push in with. There's an argument for calling and folding. How far out of the money are you? Are you looking to place or for first? what's your total stack in relation to the other players... these are all important aspects to determining whether the fold is correct or not.

[schwza]

but what's more important is that bad players are really bad.

in a homegame last night i was short-stacked and pushed from the BB for 7 bb's over a utg limper and the SB with AKs. i was called by both, utg had 66 and SB had q6o. there are people that bad out there - don't underestimate their desire to spew chips.

[slickpoppa]

I think this is a good fold. WPT wannabes love making unnecessary all-ins with middle pairs. There's no need to get on the wrong side of a coin flip here. You might have folded to two guys with AQ and AJ, or something like that, but it is unlikely. I think it is much more likely that you were a small dog.

[Loci]

Excellent point... It's funny that you point that out to me, because I used to so regularly say that same thing to my old roommate. This was when we were both starting out(he frankly hasn't improved much) and when he's playing the .50/1.00 limit tables he would be trying to run complicated moves that would stun people at a 400+ no lim table... He was, and still is, a consistant loser because he constantly outplays himself. He believes that he's playing people that have read every book, studied every technique, and analyzed every move that he has, and they will therefore fall for this bluff at this time because it's such a perfect play... and then some guy calls with pocket twos and beats his nine high bluff.
Good post Schwza.

[Phil2]

[ QUOTE ]
A/K is a hand to call all ins, not push in with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could not disagree more with this. This is really about AK fundamentals (pertaining to tournament poker). AK is absoultely a push hand because it prefers to be all in before the flop against very vew apponents. When you push with this hand, you can force out medium pairs that can beat you. You hate to see AA flipped, but your still in decent shape against KK and QQ. Getting your all-in called by JJ and TT (especially if you are a big stack) is not likely. Also, if you just call and miss the flop, you might not be around to hit an A or K on the turn or river against paired hands. So no question, push, not call.

[Loci]

The number of hands that call an all in is different from the number of hands that push all in. Many people, desperate for a race to double up with or just for a needed blind steal, will push all in with any pair. Calling an all in with A/K is then a coin flip. The number of hands that are strong enough to call an all in push is very limited however. You won't call an all in push with low or mid pairs, so the only hands that will be calling your push with A/K are going to certainly be ahead of you, 10s-Qs, and sometimes KK (where you're a 70-30 dog) and AA (where you're drowning fast.)

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
So no question, push, not call.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, yes. However, if you have a bunch a weak player who are likely to be allin with Ax or Kx, then I wnat to call with AK.

In a lot of shallow money situations, you would automatically call a push with AK, or AT for that matter.

[adamstewart]

Keep in mind that I very rarely play in tournaments, so my experience is limited here....

But here's what I was thinking:


With the blinds still being very small relative to everyone's (including my) stack sizes, I didn't feel it necessary to make any "coin-flip" big plays. At this point, we weren't that deep in the tourney. Sure, winning this pot would have given me a strong stack to work with, but losing it would force me to play somewhat more aggressively and likely force me into some desperate situations later on. (The next blind increase was to $20/$40, I believe).

When EP went all-in, I thought he'd at worst have middle pocket pairs, or a high ace.... not to mention Aces or Kings, in which case I'm screwed.

However, when a second player felt his hand was strong enough to call, I figured, he'd at least have an Ace (or a King).... or even a pocket pair. Again, if he had Aces or Kings, I'm screwed.

Between the two already in the pot, I figure I'm up against a pocket pair, and a high ace. NOTE: any ace or king held by another player takes away from my outs, making it less likely for me to win any coin-flip situations. And it's not even a coin-flip situaion anymore since I'm up against TWO opponents!


Given the above, at this semi-early stage in the tourney, I didn't feel this was a risk I needed to take.


Thoughts...?

Adam