I flopped the wrong trips

[Blarg]

I feel I did the right thing by not chasing anyone out on the flop, especially considering my chip position. I might have played it differently with a different sized stack, but I wasn't satisifed with just the antes this time. How wrong or right was my play?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t2110)
UTG (t1140)
MP (t1915)
CO (t375)
Button (t1540)
Hero (t920)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t50, Button calls t50, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t250) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t80</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t80, CO calls t80, Button folds.

Turn: (t490) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t300</font>, Hero calls t150.

River: (t1090) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1090

[strelok]

I think your bet on the flop is weak, considering a 200 sized pot on the flop, you weren't going to scare anyone with a K and a good kicker off it. I guess turn play was ok, you were still ahead and no way was he laying down trips anyway. River killed you making this just a bad beat.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Result
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=888698
pokenum -h 8s 8c - ks tc -- kh js 8h
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Js Kh 8h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8s 8c 923 93.23 67 6.77 0 0.00 0.932
Ks Tc 67 6.77 923 93.23 0 0.00 0.068
</pre><hr />
I just took KT as an example it's all the same for Kx

[Blarg]

I was hoping on the flop to not scare out a King with a bad kicker, and to get a raise from a King with a good kicker. On the turn, I figured I had villain locked in for the full total of my stack and most of his stack almost regardless of what I did, so I just made a laid back bet just to seal the deal.

I guess I still thought there was a very real chance of scaring out a weak king on the flop, since the pot was not all that big and a weak king doesn't look too strong to me on that board.

[kevstreet]

[ QUOTE ]
I was hoping on the flop to not scare out a King with a bad kicker, and to get a raise from a King with a good kicker.[ QUOTE ]


I'm putting myself in your shoes and I think this may be one of the times I check raise. But I don't think your line is bad here. I'm guessing that stupid jack on the river really screwed you?


WHY AM I QUOTING MYSELF HERE??

[Blarg]

Yeah, the jack made it so that whether he was calling me with either a king or a jack, he just hit a full house bigger than mine could be.

Here's how it turned out.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t2110)
UTG (t1140)
MP (t1915)
CO (t375)
Button (t1540)
Hero (t920)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t50, Button calls t50, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t250) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t80</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t80, CO calls t80, Button folds.

Turn: (t490) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t300</font>, Hero calls t150.

River: (t1090) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1090

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has 9h Ks (full house, kings full of jacks).
CO has Ah Qh (two pair, kings and jacks).
Hero has 8s 8c (full house, eights full of kings).
Outcome: UTG wins t1090. </font>

Oh, quotes start with the word "quote" inside a pair of brackets [] and end with the word /quote inside brackets, with that little slash in front of it, so you can always manually adjust your posts if things come out looking funky. Just type or delete any messes.

EDIT: Hmm, not sure why, but the converter didn't show the final bet. Villain bet $200 on the river, and I folded.

[JasonP530]

Its not the same for all, because KT can make a backdoor straight. Why didnt you get it all in on the turn?

[Blarg]

I figured the only way I could possibly NOT get more money in the pot was to raise the turn.

[sofere]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel I did the right thing by not chasing anyone out on the flop, especially considering my chip position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why oh why is it a good idea to give straight and flush draws such fantastic pot odds? First to act after the flop in a 5-way pot, you have two options. You can (a) check-raise or (b) bet 2/3 the pot. You never want to be in a 5-way hand without the immortal nuts. A 2/3 bet will still get called by TPGK, but will give improper odds for draws that will beat you if they hit.

Once you got reraised on the turn, that should have been an autopush. If you win the pot right there, you've already doubled up. But more likely, he'll call after the reraise with a dominated hand. The result would still be the same, but in the long run its +$ev

[Blarg]

Regarding the turn, all my money was going in the pot either way. Like I noted above, the only way it wasn't going all in on the river would be by the strange flukey chance of someone reconsidering calling a raise on the turn. Not saying it's likely, but that the ONLY way not to get all my money and the other guy's money in was by raising the turn.

As to the fold, I see what you're saying about giving draws good odds, but I thought someone having a king was highly likely and I wanted to keep a weak king in but let a strong king or two pairs have an opportunity to raise or even push on me, trapping a big stack.

I compared that in my head to what also seemed like the very real possibility of someone folding a weak king or a hand like a pair of queens and my winding up making almost nothing from the pot instead of a major killing.

Did I overthink this that much and that badly? It's not that I don't see your point, but...well, I felt pretty unthreatened by someone having QT to make an open-ended straight, and I'm generally just not very worried about inside straight draws like AQ when I have trips on the flop.

That kind of left me mostly worried about someone pulling very, very few hands out of the deck to beat me.

Are straights that much of a threat here? Am I way off base and falling prey to fancy play syndrome?

Normally I feel fairly confident with trips against a pair, two pair, or an inside straight draw on the flop, and think there's so much potential profit to be made, I don't want to just grab the blinds and nothing else.

[Blarg]

You know what? I probably should have taken the potential of flush draws more seriously on the flop.