Please be brutal [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

11t

04-11-2005, 02:56 AM

I butchered these hands, I would like to hear what people say about them. What would you have done?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t4000 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t15524)
SB (t101895)
BB (t61579)
Hero (t74782)
UTG+1 (t40568)
MP1 (t41817)
MP2 (t21214)
MP3 (t34481)
CO (t12890)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls t4000, 3 folds, MP3 raises to t34281, 4 folds, Hero calls t30281.

Flop: (t70162) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)

Turn: (t70162) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)

River: (t70162) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: t70162

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t11146)
UTG+1 (t9890)
MP1 (t6840)
MP2 (t3665)
MP3 (t11597)
CO (t4362)
Button (t5148)
Hero (t27915)
BB (t11190)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
6 folds, Button raises to t1250, Hero raises to t5450, BB raises to t11190, Button folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t18190

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t6000 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t114354)
BB (t105695)
UTG (t28002)
Hero (t97202)
MP1 (t52948)
MP2 (t51541)
CO (t71622)
Button (t151389)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to t18000, 1 fold, MP2 raises to t36000, 4 folds, Hero calls t18000.

Flop: (t73800) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t15241 (All-In), Hero calls t15241.

Turn: (t104282) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t104282) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t104282

unglee

04-11-2005, 05:02 AM

Hard to give comments without reads and other background information, but here are my thoughts:

1. Why are you are limping with AJ when the blinds are this large? Raise it UTG and try to steal the blinds. When someone comes over the top of you with their entire stack, you should fold, barring some crazy read on the Villian. AJ is NOT a hand you want to call 30+K with.

2. Again, I don't know why you're going buck wild with a marginal hand like KJ, unless the button is stealing too much and has been out of line. You have a huge stack, why not just call his 2xbb raise and see a flop? That way, when and if the big blind goes all in for 11K. you can just get out.

3. This is a bit trickier, and depends more on reads. How aggressive is MP2? Your preflop raise is fine, standard 3xbb. When MP2 miniraises you to 36K, you should take notice because he only has about 15K left. This often is a sign of strength (a weaker hand would just push, no?), and this also means you're probably going to call his last 15K as well. With that in mind, AQ is the minimum hand for a call here, I think, and that's not good enough for me to call (unless I have a reason to think otherwise).

AlwaysWrong

04-11-2005, 06:20 AM

(1) At this point in the tournament you just shouldn't be limping unless you're trapping. If you raise 3x and get popped whether you call or not depends on how tight the raiser is and how big his stack is.

(2) I would probably just call the initial raise. You're getting 3:1 on calling the big blind's push in your situation so you can only fold if you're pretty sure he won't do this with AQ or TT->77.

(3) Calling is kind of absurd, but I guess it's pretty much exactly the same as repushing since nobody is folding at that point. I'd fold to a tight player and repush against a loose player. If the player is decent the minraise probably means you're dominated. If it's a bad player it probably means he couldn't be bothered to type in a number.

hummusx

04-11-2005, 09:29 AM

1) Everyone else said it. Raise or fold.

2) At first I thought I hated this, but I guess I don't mind the raise. It's almost surely a steal (we know it was since button folded) and with less than 10x BB left he could have almost any 2 which makes KJ pretty decent.

3) I don't know. Tricky one. I'm definitely not happy being all in for half my stack on someone else's aggression with AQ. But at each decision point I can't say that I would do it differently. The minraise for 1/3 of his chips seems awfully suspicious though. Actually the more I'm looking at it...when someone raises from early position, you can't believe they are going to lay it down to a minraise (esp if they have double your chips). So I think he's expecting you to call, which means you are probably behind.

sloth469

04-11-2005, 09:39 AM

Hand 2 makes me sick. You got yourself into the position with a sub-par holding, but at that point how do you justify folding? With the pot laying me 3 to 1, while I believe I am, in an online tourney I have to see that I'm beat. Unless he has AA, KK or AK you have odds here on your King alone and 88-TT would not surprise me one bit.

-sloth

dmk

04-11-2005, 09:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
2) At first I thought I hated this, but I guess I don't mind the raise. It's almost surely a steal (we know it was since button folded) and with less than 10x BB left he could have almost any 2 which makes KJ pretty decent.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not the worst part of the hand. He folded...

Mez

04-11-2005, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) At first I thought I hated this, but I guess I don't mind the raise. It's almost surely a steal (we know it was since button folded) and with less than 10x BB left he could have almost any 2 which makes KJ pretty decent.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not the worst part of the hand. He folded...

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. He's obviously behind, but getting more than 3:1 to call w KJ.

halis123456789

04-11-2005, 12:39 PM

Hand 1:
AJo, UTG, 9-handed
FOLD

Hand 2:
KJo, SB, 9-handed
What type of player is the button? Even if he's loosey-goosey I recommend just calling. Then you can fold when the BB puts in T11190

Hand 3:
AQo, UTG+1, 8-handed
What kind of table is it? Since you're in EP that's all you can really judge on. If it's a real tight conservative table with little raising (unlikely) then limp in. If it is aggressive, then fold without putting one chip in.

11t

04-11-2005, 02:25 PM

The button was terrible and the BB was super tight. He showed QQ.

11t

04-11-2005, 02:32 PM

I realize I completely butchered these 3 hands, I think folding AJ UTG is my best option here. Hand 2 I think I should have just called the bet and if the BB folded bet out, the button was a terrible player.

Folding the AQ is easily the right thing to do, the re-raise came from a tight player and I just made a stupid decision. The AJ is equally bad I was just thinking that if I took a coinflip and won I would be sitting very comfortably and I could just grind it out if I didn't.

Brad F.

04-11-2005, 04:16 PM

Haven't looked at other replies, but here is what I'd do in these hands:

Hand 1: Pretty much horrible play here, and it's a lesson one must learn to become successful in tourney play. A-J offsuit, and IMO A-J suited is an automatic fold playing 7-10 handed UTG. The only thing you can hope for is a coin flip or you are dominated in this spot. Period.

Hand 2: I guess if you think the button is a complete maniac, then raising with K-J could work, but it's in the middle of a tourney, no antes, and probably not tons of reads either. So I'd call in this spot knowing the normal raising criteria on the button, maybe fold if he's been tight. Then get away from the raise by the bb.

Hand 3: This is one that can be debated by all poker players, whether or not A-Q off is a raising hand UTG. But since you obviously think it is, (as I do) you can't get away to an all-in reraise at this point. If you are willing to raise UTG with it, you gotta be ready to hit the felt with it too.

Brad

Trainwreck

04-11-2005, 09:46 PM

Didn't read any responses yet:

#1 That was bad call, you already know that.

#2 Good fold, bad luck there.

#3 Wondering why your raiser didn't push there, looks like he likely missed flopped too, really hate that river, but that was easy call on flop with that much in the pot.

So 1 bad, 2 fine, B- /images/graemlins/wink.gif

>TW< or call me VINCE if you want, LOL!

Mike Gallo

04-11-2005, 10:08 PM

I stopped reading after you called the all in. Please explain your call here. You had the chip lead. Act as a bully not a caller.

Mike Gallo

04-11-2005, 10:23 PM

Dude,

Welcome aboard. The way you posted the hand, you asked for abuse not help. That will not help you. You need to understand why many considered your play poor.

When posting a hand, think to include the following information.

How many people get paid and where are you in relation to that.

Who are the players at your table. Define their style, your reads on them.

Prior hands you might have played against them.

Only post one hand per post and do not berate yourself, let others do it /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Crooked Paul

04-12-2005, 12:33 AM

1. I would definitely raise here, then call moderate reraises but probably fold to a push, depending on read.

2. I probably wouldn't play KJ at all unless I was the first raiser and could represent greater strength. Calling with KJ in first position seems a bad play.

3. Your pre-flop play is all right, but why did you call on the flop? You got reraised PF, then he raises huge on a rag flop. You're definitely looking at an overpair or a set here. Easy fold.

Crooked

Roman

04-12-2005, 01:10 AM

Hand 1: Raise > fold > limp/fold > limp/call
Hand 2: I actually don't hate this too much, I would probably call the push getting those pot odds though.
Hand 3: Tricky, very read dependent for me. If you are calling, just set him in pf, but if you call pf, open push for that .1% FE if you are calling an all in anyway.