KINGS FROM HELL (part three)

[dark_horse]

flame away...

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (12 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (21 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 25 BB

[Isura]

I wouldn't cap the flop. I like the turn raise, but betting the river has very little value.

[Shillx]

I don't really like the turn raise but that is debatable.

The river bet is flat out bad. Given the action, what hand can you beat here? Even if he was messing around with a busted draw, he isn't going to call on the river with it. And if he has something like Ax /images/graemlins/diamond.gif you are now beat. The river is 100% reckless. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Brad

[deepsquat]

Flop and Turn are good imo.

The river bet was bad. MP1 is not going to fold in this pot for one bet if the ace hurts him and it doesnt help you so u end up paying an extra bet when u may get a free SD on the river. I cant see him playing a draw like thi son the turn.

He gave u a chance to bluff at at he ace, or bet if it helped you so it looks as if he had a very strong hand. maybe a set of 10's

[dark_horse]

i totally fell for that novice trap. not sure why i bet that river at all. totally dumb.

how about this one?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

i figured going for a c/r here was a good idea given i'd be doing it to the field and the ace probably hit UTG+1. unfortunately CO folded.

[deepsquat]

Edit- damn bro, whyd u check/raise the turn? Man ive gotta pay more attn to these hands.

Tricky play on a potentially tricky board.

Lead the turn.

[Entity]

On a K/images/graemlins/club.gifQ/images/graemlins/club.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gifA/images/graemlins/spade.gif board, how many potential draws can we see?

I would bet the turn for value. He'll often raise with a big Ace which will allow you to 3-bet. Checkraising this turn is pretty bad IMHO.

Rob

[Fredrik]

I only got pokertracker a couple of days ago, so I don't have that hands to make it statistically significant; but during the 645 recorded hands I've played in ring-games I've been dealt KK five times.

I've won it ONE time; and that's because I managed to flop a set.

But yeah, statistic variance blah-blah. I'll come back when I have 10k+ hands played. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[crumpentunt]

For Hand #2, if you felt he hit the ace why not bet and let one of them raise with their ace? The turn check/raise is also too risky, you have to be almost positive one of them has an ace and will bet it. Even then, I think betting is a much better option. I don't think the risk of giving a free card on that board is a good idea at all.

[crumpentunt]

For Hand #1, I'd cap the flop as well, and check/call if bet into on the turn, or lead on the turn if checked too. I dont like the river bet at all, chip spewing in my opinion.

[Shillx]

For Hand #2, if you felt he hit the ace why not bet and let one of them raise with their ace?

Welcome to the forums and a perfect 1st post.

DarkHorse - The bet-3bet line way owns the check/raise line in this spot. At a minimum you get one bet (while you might get none if you check) and if he has an ace you have a good chance of putting in a 3rd bet against a guy who will goto a showdown.

Brad

Edit: Okay I've made about 40 posts today and I need to get some hands in. Post less and play more. Only at 630 hands for the month. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Duerig]

The best time to check raise the turn is if you raised on the flop. So you would bet-call the flop and then check raise the turn. Don't check raise the turn when your opponent has shown 0 aggression, it might get checked through.

[dark_horse]

yep, totally good point. in fact, even better if i bet, UTG+1 raises, and CO cold calls. then i make even more. as time goes by it seems check-raising is rarely the right play when it's not heads up and you're not trying to protect something. meanwhile, it always feels like i hit my strong hands from early position. either that or you just remember the "negative" stress more.

[crumpentunt]

Thanks for the welcome, I've read the FAQ and decided to put some input into other people's hands. Later on, I'll post 1 or 2 problem hands from my next session. Been lurking for awhile!

[bottomset]

well everyone has already got to the explanations, i'll just echo it

hand1: not raising that turn against most villians, def. checking behind on the river

hand2: betting/3betting the turn