Cold call a river raise on the river with top pair ?

[Sulphate1]

MP is loose-aggressive, he was all-in at one stage but has had a good run of cards to build back up. No reads on BB

I think I really screwed this hand up...

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, Hero calls.

Should I have raised ? I really didnt see how he would bet out on the turn with anything I beat...
River: (7.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero ??

I really didnt know what to do here, turn card makes the straight even more likely and I could be behind to a raggedy two pair or set, is folding correct ?

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

[topspinner]

I would fold. Usually in 1-2 when someone leads out a bet on the turn when they have been checking it means they have just hit a hand (straight or set in this case), combine this with the fact that MP is raising on the river, I think makes this an easy fold. Also, there is a chance that this could get capped as well.

[Roy6]

definetely fold the river

[Sulphate1]

Yeah looking at it again the fold is pretty clear cut. It's just that the BB folded to the raise too and that threw me off entirely, but with no read on the BB I had to fold.

[Alobar]

If you just called this turn because you figure you are behind, then it shouldnt matter that the river was raised or not, you should have been planning to fold anyway.

[Sulphate1]

I was planing on calling down (If MP hadn't raised the river) after BB bet out the turn. MP had shown to me he would call down with any peice of the board. I had no reads on BB so I wasn't entirely sure I was behind. Is this totally out of line ?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I was planing on calling down (If MP hadn't raised the river) after BB bet out the turn. MP had shown to me he would call down with any peice of the board. I had no reads on BB so I wasn't entirely sure I was behind. Is this totally out of line ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if you think you are ahead enough to warrent a call down, I would have thought about a raise. Unless the guy is aggro and will 3 bet you with a crappy 2 pair I prolly raise this. Im less likely to think you are behind, because why is he betting into you instead of checkraising you?

[Sulphate1]

The thing is though the guy had just sat down and I had nothing on him. I felt calling down would be the most +ev option in these circumstances as I really didn't know where I stood.

[helpmeout]

Calling down is fine why raise? Let the guy bet his weaker hands.

If you are ahead he probably folds and if you are behind you waste an extra bet.

Of course you fold this on the river, you didnt have control of the hand and it was raised, with you still to act.

[PassiveCaller]

[ QUOTE ]
If you just called this turn because you figure you are behind, then it shouldnt matter that the river was raised or not, you should have been planning to fold anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

zactly.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling down is fine why raise? Let the guy bet his weaker hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't one of those HU situations where you let the guy bet his weaker hand because you worry hell fold if you raise. Its not even close to being the same.

However, I mearly made my earlier post to reflect his turn assesment. If he cant come up with a hand on the turn he beats, it shouldnt matter what the river action was, its an obvious fold.

[mperich]

This river is never an obvious fold, or ever a fold at all if you just call the turn. The turn is a raise though, unless hes very passive.

-Mike

[Lmn55d]

do you fold to a 3bet?

[mperich]

Depends on the player. Usually yah, altho i may fold the river unimproved against certain players. (I consider the board pairing an improvement)

-Mike

[maxpowers21]

If you are that unsure of whether you are good here or not on the turn...Why not raise the turn and check behind on the river. This avoids allowing your opponets to draw to free river cards that could beat your vulnerable top pair.

You are also representing a very strong hand by doing this and are unlikely to be three-bet or bet into on the river without a very strong hand by your opponet.