Conceptual Idea

[Jason Strasser]

Bubble time.

Small stack is all in from the BB. Medium stack is UTG and folds. Second medium stack (5xbb lets say) limps from button. Big stacks turn in sb to act and holds garbage (23o lets say).

Should he raise? Call? Fold?

Why?

Plz assume the levels of folding equity are where a 200 sng on party is typically at.

-Jason

[johnnybeef]

lets think about why this guy would limp when there are two people yet to act. two reasons come to mind...either he is holding a monster and wants to trap someone else acting behind him...or if he is weak, he has a holding such as kq, or kj, in which he is telling you "hey guys i got this one". i could see possibly pushing if you had a hand that figured to be a fav. against the short stack, but you are holding a dog to any other hand, and tripling up the short stack is just not worth it.

[Jason Strasser]

This is a semi-obvious response. I'm looking for something a little deeper and having to do with the stack sizes and such.

Does the big stack want the small stack to lose?

-Jason

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a semi-obvious response. I'm looking for something a little deeper and having to do with the stack sizes and such.

Does the big stack want the small stack to lose?

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

this is something that i adressed, but i edited it out....no, he doesn't want him eliminated, as his mere presence will enable him to steal at will in future hands...however, i don't feel that this move is as effective when the small stack is holding 3 bb. furthermore, if the limper is in fact holding a hand which you are a 4:1 dog in, (depending on the blind level) he could potentially even the 5bb stack to that of his own. i knew what you were getting at in the orig. post, its just that in this situation, it is all wrong.

[Jason Strasser]

Fine pt accepted... Change it to 6-7xbb for medium stacks.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Fine pt accepted... Change it to 6-7xbb for medium stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

i can see what you're getting at...but imo this situation would be even worse. with a 6-7xbb stack, a limp screams of high pocket pair (unless of course he is very weak). the problem with your situation imo, is the limper. i think that you are trying to ask how far many people will go to keep a small stack alive, but imo, your situation is borderline cute play syndrome. keeping the small stack alive works best when he has less than 2 blinds, as he still has some fold equity with 3 blinds (especially in levels 6 and higher). the secret to keeping the small stack is not allowing him toget to that magic stack of >2.5 bb. furthermore, i think that a more appropriate situation to discuss would be the opposite of what you posted. lets discuss this one...

blinds 150/300.

small stack has 280 prior to postinb bb.
2 folds to you, with a stack of 3800 prior to posting the small blind.
you look down and see AA...
what is your play?


edit: as i am sick as a dog, i am going back to bed for a few hours, but i will check back around noon est or so....

[Big Limpin']

YOu had me at "conceptual idea" /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The ideal result is that hero's push is uncalled, and BB wins, thus facilitating both an extension of the bubble, AND reallocation of other's stacks, so that the 2nd stack (button guy here) loses chips.

[Big Limpin']

As an aside, these situations are, in my opinon, the most fun you can have playing poker. I dont mean dicussing them in a forum, i mean being there, as a towering stack, thinking on your feet how to be the best bully you can be.

[J-Lo]

min raise, and push on any flop... As long as you have >7x BB

Because even if u lose, u have 2x BB and will money. Picking up chips is great, and keepin the bubble alive is your goal, right? Your oponent will only pair 1 out of 1/3 times, so u lose 1/2 of you BB to SB, but u win the rest of the pot. I like to keep the other 3 stacks as even as possible, by stealing w/ any 2 when i have big stack.

[citanul]

Egad.

He said the other guy had 6 or 7 bets, not the hero.

Additionally, not all times that you have the big stack is it in your best interest to keep the bubble alive. As was hinted at by jason's earlier post that said "I was hoping to see some kind of answer involving stack sizes."

citanul

editted to add: additionally, basically any plan that involves miniraising with a player in the pot already is a poor one. always.