2 table $11 sng - help!?

[nazzbazz]

I've started to play $11 two table sng's and ive played about 10, im allways ending up in 9th to 5th place, every time with a small chip stack...

What am i doing wrong, i suppose i play too tight, how do you think i should play?

I know 10 games is not much but i feel im playing wrong...

peace!

[ryachris]

How should we know what you are doing wrong.

All you told us is that you are losing.

How? Bluffing off your chips, bad beats, is it nl? omaha? lack of experience, did you uased to win and the $5.50 sit'ngo level.

What type of responce do you want to "hwlp I am losing"

[nazzbazz]

it's NL and no i havent been playing on the $5.50, ive only been playing on $11 single table, and now i wanted to try multitable, no i just want to know some strategies, if i can play on 2 table tourneys with the same strategy, tight in the beginning and then loosen up when the blinds increase... what strategies do you have?

[betgo]

Try moving down to the $5.50 2-table SNGs and see if you can beat them.

[ryachris]

try searching forumfor MTT strategies, that subject has been completely and fully covered. Unless you have something more specific than help I am losing

[McMelchior]

Cool it, Cat!

2-table satellites happens to be one of the subjects that has NOT been discussed to any substantial extent here on twoplustwo.

Since "final table" is reached much faster compared to true MTTs optimal strategy for MTT's cannot be immediately transfered to two-tables. And single-table strategy renders you pretty helpless when you find yourself at a full "final table" with less than half of the average stack holding only 10 - 12 times the big blind.

Two-table SnGs do not sit well with my preferred playing style, and I have far from excelled in them. But obviously they call for a very aggressive stance right from the get-go - you MUST double your stack within the first 4 - 5 levels or you're pretty much chanceless.

If you can point me (and the original poster) to better strategy posts for two table sats it would be welcomed.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
Cool it, Cat!

2-table satellites happens to be one of the subjects that has NOT been discussed to any substantial extent here on twoplustwo.

Since "final table" is reached much faster compared to true MTTs optimal strategy for MTT's cannot be immediately transfered to two-tables. And single-table strategy renders you pretty helpless when you find yourself at a full "final table" with less than half of the average stack holding only 10 - 12 times the big blind.

Two-table SnGs do not sit well with my preferred playing style, and I have far from excelled in them. But obviously they call for a very aggressive stance right from the get-go - you MUST double your stack within the first 4 - 5 levels or you're pretty much chanceless.

If you can point me (and the original poster) to better strategy posts for two table sats it would be welcomed.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to play these all the time. I'm off to bed now, if no one writes a good response to this, I'll write an essay tomorrow.

CSC

[nazzbazz]

allright, i will be glad to read that essay /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Crooked Paul]

Hey, I'll take a stab at it. I play a lot of two-table SNGs on Poker Stars, and I've definitely made money on it. Of my last 10 SNGs, I won two of them, placed second once, and fourth once. (I'm sure others have much better records. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just saying I've made money playing two-table sit'n'gos, and that's what you're asking about.) Ahem.

I don't know what your preferred style of play is, but I consider myself a fairly tight aggressive player. I bluff relatively rarely but when I do I don't half-ass it, and I almost never get caught unless my opponent was slowplaying the nuts or near enough. That's just background about my style of play.

So here's what I like to do in my two-table sit'n'gos. I play very tight for the first orbit or so, pretty much folding anything but a premium hand, with which I raise (usually 3xBB depending on callers and position). I know a lot of players on this forum will think this is terrible advice, that you should come out swinging and play your most tenacious, aggressive game from the start. There are two reasons I don't do this.

First, I want to establish a strong table image. I find that it's worth it to pass up the couple of small pots I could have won if my Q9o made the straight, because if the first two or three hands I show down are an AJ-high flush or queens with an ace kicker, that frees me up to play my A-game and make smart semi-bluffs to steal pots. This generally won't work unless/until you've earned some respect from the others at your table.

Second, do you really want to be making tough decisions against a player you've only observed for two hands? I think it's worth it to sit out a few small pots at low blinds until I have some kind of read on my opponents.

So after I've played tight for an orbit or so (and hopefully won a decent pot by showing down a very strong hand), then I upshift to normal tourney style. That is, play tight, play aggressive, play position. If you find yourself doing a lot of calling preflop, you probably need to adjust your game. Fold most hands without mercy or regret, and when you decide one is worth playing (based as much on position as the hand itself, of course), play it hard. Raise preflop, and if you get minraised, come back with a much stronger reraise. That kind of thing.

I think if you can (1) establish a rep as a strong player, (2) get some kind of read on your opponents, and (3) not be afraid to push your chips into the pot when the situation warrants, everything else will fall into place.

I have a feeling some more experienced players are going to come along and say that I don't know WTF I'm talking about. I'm cool with that, just try to be constructive, you guys.


Crooked

[MonkeeMan]

I've played in a few hundred 2-table S&G's and am beating the rake at least. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Fold most hands without mercy or regret, and when you decide one is worth playing (based as much on position as the hand itself, of course), play it hard. Raise preflop, and if you get minraised, come back with a much stronger reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

In Stars turbo's and the problem/challange is that this advice, while sound, only applies for the first orbit or two, unless you've already built a big stack. In non-turbos there is about twice as much time, but still not much.

Once you've gotten to level 3 you have about 30BB if you're at the original stack size. When I raise it's usually to 4X BB or 4/30 my stack. If an opponent then min-raises, its to 8BB. Now I'm facing a 4BB raise with 26BB. In order to make a strong re-re-raise I'm essentially pot committing myself, since a raise of, say 8BB, would leave me with 14BB behind and a pot of over 32BB. So it's often turned into an all-in or nothing type decision once they re-raise my pre-flp raise, much rhe same as if I was down to 10BB to begin with.

Perhaps this thinking reveals why I'm not doing better in these.

[tjh]

I find that I do better on the two table than the one tables.

There is an uncomfortable stretch of short handed play before the final table that is a little bit baffling. Sort of feels like a bubble before the bubble. Down to 5 players on one table and 6 on the other, I hate that part.

On empire/party the blind structure of two table SNG is much more relaxed so you can be more selective early and not need to panic about the blinds. I could not beat the empire 1 table tourneys because I was used to UB rather slow blind structure and plenty of chips. To me the empire single table SNG required that I play a lot of hands that I do not usually play early on. So I just could not adjust.

What is your percentage of flops seen ?

What range of hads are you playing ?

First round is KJs good early position ? A8o ?

I would guess that your leak is loose starting hand requirements. Tighten up. Play any pair for very cheap, raise with AA, KK, JJ, QQ, . No fancy stuff till level 3 or so.

Getting to the "final table" shortish stacked is no big deal, just do not get there crippled. You may be able to save a few hundred by playing less rather than winning more hands. Try that. Your image will be tight so when you change gears it will take them a while to know what hit them.

Funny..
I post two table SNG questions on the "single table toruney" forum. I figure they are much closer to a single table SNG than a 200 player Multi.

Any thoughts on where these posts belong ?

Also there should be a formula to calculate what hands are playable based on blinds and structure. For example if I can fold every hand and see 500 hands before I lose half of my stack then I can hold out for some seriously good hands. If I see 80 hands for the cost of half of my stack then k-10s begins to look playable.

Tom

[Crooked Paul]

I see what you're saying, Born, and you're right -- that's a pickle. But you painted a portrait of the worst-case scenario, or pretty close to it. Using this method, I find that by the time I get to Level 3 I've added 33-50% to my stack, so I have about 40xBB. So if I raise 3xBB and get minraised to 6xBB, then I can comfortably raise 6xBB above that with about 12-14xBB in the pot. I usually don't take the pot pre-flop with a play like this, but it's very successful at isolating one opponent. Then I have 27xBB left and the pot is like 30xBB. Works pretty well.

I've only played in one turbo SNG and it left kind of a bad taste in my mouth. I had taken a couple of small pots, but the first really strong hand I got was QQ. I raised to 4xBB, got minraised by one player only, and at this point I had like 12 more BBs in my stack. I put the villain on a hand like AQ/JJ, so I confidently pushed all-in. Sure enough, he shows 10-10 and I think I'm sitting pretty. But he caught a 10 on the flop and another on the river for quad tens!! That really sucked. So I've been sticking to the non-turbo SNGs where my more patient opening strategy really pays off.


Crooked