Free card play?

[mcr]

Hello everyone, I'm new to big-bet poker... hope that if this question is not too elementary for this board. Can any of you offer me advice on how you play flush draws and open-ended straight draws in hold 'em? In structured-limit, you can raise on the flop to try to get a free card. Does it make sense to do the same in big-bet poker, when a raise is more expensive, and exposes you to a huge reraise?

Bob Ciaffone recommends pushing all-in when you flop the nut-flush draw, trying to buy the pot. (For deception, you're supposed to do the same occasionally when you flop a set on a 2-suited board.) I'm afraid to make this play at the online tables I play at, because I'm too afraid that someone with 2 pair won't respect me and call. Am I chicken? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Let me know what you think... thanks!

Pushing All In -
I dont agree with this advice, offcourse your stack size compared to the money in the pot might make u lean towards making this sort of play. If you had say $15 and the pot is $8 and your opponent bets $4 then you could push all in with your nut flush draw. Suppose you have $50 and the pot is $3 you should never move all in with your draw because only a better hand such as two pair or a set will call especially online i have seen many players call with these type of hands and hands such as top pair with medium kicker.

You should be watching your opponents style of play, does he usually fold to raises. Is he an analytical player who considers information about his opponents before folding and also consider your table image are you known as a tight player or a loose aggressor.
How I play draws? I like to raise them in shorthanded 2-3 player pots and especially in headsup pots. Otherwise if the odds permit me drawing i call and hopefully hit the flush. If you have any other questions dont hesitate to ask.
-MJ

I dont like pushing all in with flush draws at all. Most players will recognize this move because these oppertunities are pretty obvious. As far as trying to get a free card goes there is really no such strategy in a no limit game. You are usually best to just flat call, unless the pot is reasonably big and you feel your oppenent is on a weak hand. There are some advantages to raise because it does add some deception to your hand if the flush card hits. However you ve to be careful because often times your oppenent will bet out with a powerfull hand, you will raise, and then he will come back over the top of your and take you right off your draw. Thats the risk you take when you make a smaller type raise on the flop. As far as situations to move all in with these types of hands. it really does depend on both the situation and the player. I like it when I think I have to live overcards with my flush draw that will also win the pot for me when they hit. Am example would be AKs agaist what you feel is a smaller overpair and rage hit the flpo with two of your suit. But again every situation is so different you cant say when to move in with these hands.

[Marco Trevix]

I totally agree with previous answers.
The "4 flush flop all-in move" (and an open-end draw with 2 overcards) is easily recognizable. If you detect these moves and you are lucky enough your opponents don't hit their draws you have an interesting advantage.

Marco

[Lurker]

If you make a small raise on the flop with your flush draw and get called, knuckle behind on the turn when a brick hits, and then bet the pot when the third flush card falls on the river, your hand will be so transparent that no one will pay you off. Not to say you shouldn't try to take down the pot by making a pot-sized raise from time to time, just saying that the free card play is not a good standard tactic against thinking opponents.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

But, if it's that certain to work, why not make the play when you DON'T have the flush draw? If you have second pair, you can take the free card to make two pair, and if the river is the third flush card, you can bluff out the better hand. If the river is your two-pair or trips card, you might also win a big pot. Certainly a play to have in your arsenal.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Hi fossil man. I agree this can be a good play agaist some opponents and it adds deception to your hand. And although I dont like rasing a flush draw on the flop to get a free card, I think you can raise a flush draw for a different reason. Usually I just flat call most of the time, because I make a small or decent raise, and the origanal better has a strong hand, he can then reraise and knock me off my draw. (I was saying the same thing in my other post, the second anonymous post for this subject). However, since most good players know it doesnt make a tremendous amount of sense to be putting in say a 100 dollar raise when there is about 100 in the pot or so with a flush draw, it adds some deception to your hand. For example if your opponent bets and then you make a small raise back at him, a good player might suspect that you hold a powerfull and already made hand, and he may be thinking you are hoping to be raised back so you could then put him all in. Then if the flush hits, and he also ends up making a pretty good hand, he may not put you on a flush, and you might get paid off where you might not habe had you played the hand differently. It also builds a good sized pot which is nice if you make your hand. I think this is a good example of how varying your play is important. However, I dont think you really ever raise to get a free card. In limit poker, the worst that can happen is you get three bet. In no limit poker you can be reraised right off your draw, which is not a good thing.

[mcr]

Thanks everyone for your advice! Very helpful... okay, so I won't raise for free cards then, but I'll raise once in a while for deception.