Collusion?

[byronkincaid]

NL Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:Level:5 Blinds(100/200) - Saturday, April 09, 11:33:01 EDT 2005
Table Table (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5


Seat 1: me ( $324 )
Seat 5: jimr316 ( $1900 )
Seat 7: a1030rlo ( $1002 )
Seat 8: groverpika ( $5819 )
Seat 6: ecgruen ( $955 )
Trny: Level:5
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to me [ Kd Ac ]
me is all-In [324]
jimr316 calls [324].
ecgruen folds.
a1030rlo folds.
groverpika calls [124].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, Js, 6s ]
groverpika checks.
jimr316: got a jack
jimr316 bets [200].
groverpika folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 2c ]
jimr316 shows [ Jd, Ks ] two pairs, jacks and threes.
me shows [ Kd, Ac ] a pair of threes.
me finished in fifth place.
jimr316 wins 200 chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, jacks and threes.
jimr316 wins 1072 chips from the main pot with two pairs, jacks and threes.
sweet
thanks


Don't look like he's running too good in the $50s atm, I seem to play him a lot.

Player jimr316
Games played 339
Wins 102 (30.09%)
Losses 237 (69.91%)
Average Buy-In $51.4
Players with better winning percentage 175546
Players with worse winning percentage 211931
$200 Table: 5 wins / 10 losses / 33.33% wins
$100 Table: 11 wins / 18 losses / 37.93% wins
$50 Table: 37 wins / 107 losses / 25.69% wins
$30 Table: 44 wins / 95 losses / 31.65% wins
$20 Table: 2 wins / 4 losses / 33.33% wins
$10 Table: 1 wins / 1 losses / 50% wins
$5 Table: 2 wins / 1 losses / 66.67% wins

Him and grover wouldn't accept that this was cheating. Maybe they're right?

[Daliman]

They're wrong. Report this hand to PP immediately.

[valenzuela]

lol, I once saw this on a $215.
5 or 4 handed( this happened 7 months ago so I dont remember much)
button: 4000...raises to 1000
BB: 1700...goes all-in
button folds. Thats colluding, saying he has a jack is not such a huge form of cheating really. Plus its better for u if the other guy folds.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
lol, I once saw this on a $215.
5 or 4 handed( this happened 7 months ago so I dont remember much)
button: 4000...raises to 1000
BB: 1700...goes all-in
button folds. Thats colluding, saying he has a jack is not such a huge form of cheating really. Plus its better for u if the other guy folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

While your example looks like collusion, many people just don't understand pot odds, being commited, etc. I posted a hand about 6 weeks ago where a guy with ~4500 raised to 1200 3 handed, i was in the BB with 2100 and pushed, and he folded, saying "why should i give him 900 more chips".

[valenzuela]

How can someone that plays in the 200s, understand the stealing concept is going to fold those odds.

[byronkincaid]

Dear Justin,

We have looked into your complaint against player jimr316ýs chat and would like to inform you that based on the hand you have provided we have go ahead and had the player warned about repercussions of doing so again. We have also blocked his chat for a day and highlighted to the player the importance of playing poker while conforming to the etiquette of the game.

We have also looked into the account history and have made other investigative checks onto the playersý gameplay but apart from deviations at times such as the ones you noticed, the player has a clean record at our end. Justin, we have made the player aware that any action that threatens the integrity of the gameplay played at the tables would be acted upon on a serious note.

We appreciate you having addressed your concerns to us as this also does assist us in disciplining a certain form of a gameplay that we do not wish to encourage at our tables.

However, if you have any comments or concerns in this matter or any other kindly get back to us anytime at alerts@empirepoker.com and weýd be glad to assist you.

Best regards,

Ethan Bolitar,
Investigations Team

[citanul]

you have a very long way to go.

citanul

[Apathy]

If he said "got a jack" but was lying would it be ok?

[microbet]

I don't know, but at a casino one time a guy was saying the rule in a tournament is that it is ok to lie, but not to tell the truth. Not just as a matter of ethics, but that they would take the pot away from you if you won it.

I wouldn't say the guy that folded did anything wrong, unless they were buddies. He couldn't help getting the info.

[Apathy]

Really? Take the pot away and give it to who? The other active playerrs in the pot? That's very strange. I've heard of time penalties before but not that.

[valenzuela]

so do u smart guy.

[citanul]

very much so, but somehow you've managed to say 2 really sort of insane things in this thread. my new style is that i'm trying to get people to look at what they've written and realize their own mistakes.

citanul

[valenzuela]

I dont see anything insane about my posts /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[citanul]

I'll help this time:

[ QUOTE ]
How can someone that plays in the 200s, understand the stealing concept is going to fold those odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

and

[ QUOTE ]
lol, I once saw this on a $215.
5 or 4 handed( this happened 7 months ago so I dont remember much)
button: 4000...raises to 1000
BB: 1700...goes all-in
button folds. Thats colluding, saying he has a jack is not such a huge form of cheating really. Plus its better for u if the other guy folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, the first one up there, it sort of shows an ignorance of how and why winners make money. and the second one here, well, it shows an ignorance of the definition of collusion (ie, you have it entirely backwards).

citanul

[microbet]

Buh, I don't know. Some windbag was talking about it. And here I am publishing it. Maybe someone here will know whether there is any truth to it or not.

[sahala]

Ironically the same thing just happened to me. Had QQ, flop hit 966, and the guy said he had a full house. He had done this in the past (lying, it turns out, after the showdowns) and so I assumed it was more of the same BS. The hand went to showdown and I called, losing half my chips, and the guy said I had fair warning. I told him that it wasn't cool to do that and he pretty much told me to [censored] off.

Emailing the hand history to party/empire as I type this.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Buh, I don't know. Some windbag was talking about it. And here I am publishing it. Maybe someone here will know whether there is any truth to it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's true. TJ even references it in his WSOP 2003 when A player says something to the effect of "If I show you a queem, will it slow you down?". TJ says you better be lying, or they'll slap a penalty on you so fast, your head will spin." The guy ended up not having to show, and he never *actually* said he had a queen, but the reference was made. TJ also said "if you state yer hand, you better be lying". I'm not positive your hand is dead, but I'm positive people are penalized 10-20 minutes for this offense.

[sahala]

I just got the same reply. I'm really wondering whether they actually do send a warning.

[DasLeben]

I had something like this happen over at UB. I was short-stacked on the bubble, and decided to make a move. I went all-in preflop, and a guy that had me covered went into the tank. While all this was going on, a guy not in the hand began pushing the other player to "call and bust me." Of course he called, and he busted me. I wasn't at all angry about busting out of the tournament with that hand, but angry that this jackass was urging the other player to make a call. The conversation went like this after the hand (almost verbatim):

<jackass> I told you he was bluffing.
<player> Yeah, thanks for giving me a little nudge in the right direction.

Suffice to say, I immediately reported this to UB. They sent me an automated email back saying that they'd look into it, but I haven't heard an answer since. So if you see a guy by the name of "pktbookbrando" lurking the kiddie tables, smack him around a little. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Sunshine]

I really think this type of talk is part of the game: While in Vegas last week, on several occasions, we talked about the other side of the table's tells, BUT we were always IN the hand when we commented. having someone pipe-in on chat about a hand who is not even seated is wrong, but part of the differences between on-line and live, IMHO, if the comments come from an active player (someone in the hand), then fine. If they ain't in the hand, then they need a Texas-style whoopin /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
I had something like this happen over at UB. I was short-stacked on the bubble, and decided to make a move. I went all-in preflop, and a guy that had me covered went into the tank. While all this was going on, a guy not in the hand began pushing the other player to "call and bust me." Of course he called, and he busted me. I wasn't at all angry about busting out of the tournament with that hand, but angry that this jackass was urging the other player to make a call. The conversation went like this after the hand (almost verbatim):

<jackass> I told you he was bluffing.
<player> Yeah, thanks for giving me a little nudge in the right direction.

Suffice to say, I immediately reported this to UB. They sent me an automated email back saying that they'd look into it, but I haven't heard an answer since. So if you see a guy by the name of "pktbookbrando" lurking the kiddie tables, smack him around a little. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless your opponent had significant pot odds to call here and didn't undertsand, there really is nothing wrong with saying call. It's more of a hope so he KO's you than a read. But if he were to say something like "you have to call that" when the thinker is getting 3-1 on the call, that is collusion.

[citanul]

this is wrong and idiotic.

citanul

[valenzuela]

I cheat all the time, I always tell my oponents to call the all-ins other make.