Big Party Bonuses: Anyone else hate playing? [Archive]

fire_fly

04-09-2005, 08:59 AM

Does anyone else hate playing during a big Partypoker bonus period?

I swear to god, it feels like all the sudden I'm playing 15/30 or something, rocks EVERYWHERE, 7 or 8 to a table standard, and the instant one does find a decent table, it is OVERRUN with sharks/rocks within minutes. I know I'm making "some" money by playing these bonuses, but I just f*cking hate playing right now. Everyone all super serious/super rocky while I'm just trying to have some fun on a friday night. Anyone feel the same?

And yeah yeah, I know people are going to say "you are making the money on the bonus, quit complaining" but I'm just feeling annoyed. My favorite site is under siege it seems...

So that this post isn't TOTALLY useless... What strategic pre/postflop differences do you guys utilize during these enormously different bonus clearing periods at party? Do you guys try extra hard to find those juicy talbe or just say f*** it and play with 9 rocks and adjust accordingly? Hah, there, a bit o' content...

thesharpie

04-09-2005, 09:11 AM

As long as there's a couple fish and they're on your right, and the rocks are on your left, it's not too bad.

Definitely move if you have a crappy seat or the table is just too cwappy.

KingOtter

04-09-2005, 09:28 AM

I actually had pretty good luck finding tables, and made over $150 while clearing this bonus. It was trickier during the daylight hours, but around 8-9 pm the games would soften up considerably.

The tables I found weren't 40% VPIP tables, but they were in the 30's and with a few specific donks at each table that I would take money from.

KO

bonaparte

04-09-2005, 09:54 AM

I did Empire's bonus last night, and at first I had a little trouble, but between 8 PM and 12:30 AM it was fishing time. Tightened us considerably after 12:30 AM for me, but I still had one good table going. The tables were in the 40 - 52 VPIP range for a long time. Later in the evening I know I should have stopped playing or at least moved to another table, but I was thinking (at 3:00 AM) that I was at a 'good' tables because every hand was qualifying for the bonus, despite the fact that the VPIP was like 22%. See my, soon to be, post in psycology on this.

toss

04-09-2005, 10:18 AM

You search for fishes and when you find one you don't let go. And you can easily steal form a rock. It may be less profitable, but its still profitable. 15/30 is loose from what I hear too!

MrWookie47

04-09-2005, 11:12 AM

I think I want to gloat about the 71% VPIP table I found last night. I had to be careful to avoid drooling on my keyboard. This table more than made up for the hit I took earlier playing at a tight table with a bad run of luck.

KaiShin

04-09-2005, 11:46 AM

I think people make too much of a deal over bonus clearing season. Sure the % of rocks per table might go up, but as long as there's two or more players with VPIP>40 I can still clear at a pretty good clip. I was on a juicy VPIP 60 table last night, so they're still out there. Also, rocks are easy to play against /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Entity

04-09-2005, 11:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I swear to god, it feels like all the sudden I'm playing 15/30 or something, rocks EVERYWHERE

[/ QUOTE ]

You've never watched a 15/30 game, have you?

Seriously, the games are still soft as hell. Yeah, there are a few multitabling tags but they mostly don't play many hands and a lot of them play poorly anyway. It's certainly not terribly rocky. If your table is bad, move somewhere else.

Rob

Greg J

04-09-2005, 11:53 AM

Learn to isolate the bad players. It's a good technique, and there are always 2 or 3 pretty bad players, and a simple raise or reraise preflop can sometimes make it a contest of you vs them postflop. It's pretty sweet when these guys call down yr TPTK with pocket 3s.

grjr

04-09-2005, 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty sweet when these guys call down yr TPTK with pocket 3s.

[/ QUOTE ]

And conversely it's just as aggravating when they call down your missed AK with pocket 3's. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

When these guys are on my left I like to raise more with medium suited connectors. When the flop comes all mid-cards and lower they think it missed me but I actually hit two pair. When the flop comes with a couple high cards and misses me I'll bet the flop anyway and if they didn't pair up there's a good chance they'll fold thinking I hit my ace. It's the best of both worlds. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Entity

04-09-2005, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty sweet when these guys call down yr TPTK with pocket 3s.

[/ QUOTE ]

And conversely it's just as aggravating when they call down your missed AK with pocket 3's. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

When these guys are on my left I like to raise more with medium suited connectors. When the flop comes all mid-cards and lower they think it missed me but I actually hit two pair. When the flop comes with a couple high cards and misses me I'll bet the flop anyway and if they didn't pair up there's a good chance they'll fold thinking I hit my ace. It's the best of both worlds. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be more inclined to raise these hands when those sort of players are on your right -- and you should always keep those sorts of players on your right if you can.

kapw7

04-09-2005, 01:13 PM

Yeah I had the same problem. Its even worse for us in Europe. These tables are no fun to play. I quickly moved to 1/2 6 max where typically you get VPIP>60%. However 1/2 rocks are very easy to play. Just fold when they raise and bet on them at ALL times ALL streets (unless you have a monster) when heads-up. They won't be able to read you b/c they multitable but put some variability on your play of course. You also need to play different than they do. They are easy to read and you should not be. (Basic theorem of poker or something). I am more concerned about loose players who frequently outdraw your big hands. Although you take their money in the end its not CNSV+ (CNS for central nervous system) is it? But PP micros are rigged anyway /images/graemlins/cool.gif

An example:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB is 08/04 for 50+ hands. Isn't that ridiculous?
Preflop: Hero is CO with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
5 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

I try to steal most of the times. They usually fold but this one had enough of me (and a strong-ish hand)

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB folds.

I love my position and the flop. I raise and if get reraised by AK etc I will call and fold the turn UI.
He folds to one SB. Isn't that weak? Even a 77 (I doubt he raised PF with that) could have called here. No?

Final Pot: 4.75 BB
Main Pot: 4.25 BB, won by Hero.
Pot 2: 0.50 BB, returned to Hero.

Urban

04-09-2005, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I did Empire's bonus last night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. I made 75BB in four hours. I guess the rocks stayed at some other tables... I got called down with third pair soooo many times it wasn't just funny, it was hilarious!

Entity

04-09-2005, 01:21 PM

Nice hand, nice read, and way to adjust your game to the game conditions. I tend to raise more hands when I feel people are being rockish and steal a lot more. I also steal a lot of pots with bets from the blinds on flops that likely didn't hit anyone.

This is from this morning, when the ASF was 36% (pretty crappy for .5/1). I /images/graemlins/heart.gif running hot. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I raise a lot of hands when I think raising (taking the initiative) will cause weakish limpers to fold when they don't hit the flop. It's an important concept that a lot of people seem to forget when they raise from late position.

Again, seat selection is also key.

http://www.geekfitness.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/thismorning.jpg

Entity

04-09-2005, 01:25 PM

Here's the kind of [censored] I do a lot more often when I feel the limpers are weak postflop and like to fold a lot.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: 3.50 BB

grjr

04-09-2005, 01:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You should be more inclined to raise these hands when those sort of players are on your right -- and you should always keep those sorts of players on your right if you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've asked them to get up and switch seats many times but they just laugh because they think I'm joking.

grjr

04-09-2005, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]

This is from this morning, when the ASF was 36% (pretty crappy for .5/1). I /images/graemlins/heart.gif running hot. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

A wise man once told me, "The human brain is wonderful in that it can take a seemingly random series of events and generate a pattern from observing it -- moreso when it has an emotional investment in the pattern of events." There is no spoon. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Entity

04-09-2005, 06:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is from this morning, when the ASF was 36% (pretty crappy for .5/1). I /images/graemlins/heart.gif running hot. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

A wise man once told me, "The human brain is wonderful in that it can take a seemingly random series of events and generate a pattern from observing it -- moreso when it has an emotional investment in the pattern of events." There is no spoon. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You can run well without thinking that you will continue to run well.

If I look at a 30bb/100 run of hands that lasted for 300 hands, that's running well. I can observe it in the moment -- but it'd be wrong for me to assume that because I seem to be running well that I should change any of my behaviors because of it.

bottomset

04-09-2005, 07:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the kind of [censored] I do a lot more often when I feel the limpers are weak postflop and like to fold a lot.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: 3.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, I wonder if its + or - EV to show your hand after taking it down

so what level do you play when you aren't messing around at .5/1?

Entity

04-09-2005, 10:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the kind of [censored] I do a lot more often when I feel the limpers are weak postflop and like to fold a lot.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: 3.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, I wonder if its + or - EV to show your hand after taking it down

so what level do you play when you aren't messing around at .5/1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some 2/4 and some 3/6. I'm getting ready for 5/10 but I'm not quite there yet.

istewart

04-09-2005, 11:14 PM

Nice Entity.

sin808

04-09-2005, 11:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I /images/graemlins/heart.gif running hot. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img201.exs.cx/img201/9205/untitled1copy2lp.jpg /images/graemlins/tongue.gif not my turn apparently. Gotta love those uber passive players.

grjr

04-10-2005, 03:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]

You can run well without thinking that you will continue to run well.

If I look at a 30bb/100 run of hands that lasted for 300 hands, that's running well. I can observe it in the moment -- but it'd be wrong for me to assume that because I seem to be running well that I should change any of my behaviors because of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If varying my play slightly to account for the current situation is wrong I don't want to be right. To me poker is a gambling game and all gambling games have hot and cold streaks. The perceptive gambler realizes these streaks as they're happening and accounts for them accordingly.

If I'm in the middle of a hot streak then the close call/fold situations will swing to call and vice versa. You might do the same thing but don't realize it. You might not, I don't know. But if you completely ignore the gambling side of poker I think you're giving up some money along the way.

I'm not trying to convert anyone away from the mechanical play that 2+2 advocates but I want to show that there is another side to poker than just the strict mathmatics.

fire_fly

04-10-2005, 03:30 AM

ooooo, ooooooo! You want some of THAT?! Bring it!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/fire_fly21/justshit.jpg

Notice the LOVELY net figures for my premium (lol, ah god, so funny it hurts) hands.

Entity

04-10-2005, 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm in the middle of a hot streak then the close call/fold situations will swing to call and vice versa.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, but I can't see any reason to believe this. Math dictates that everything will happen within certain parameters, but you can't predict based on what happened the last hand how things will go this hand.

You have 22 on the Button. Four limpers to you. You haven't hit a set in an hour. If you're folding here because you are on a bad streak, that's bad poker.

John White

04-10-2005, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]

You can run well without thinking that you will continue to run well.

[..]

If I'm in the middle of a hot streak then the close call/fold situations will swing to call and vice versa.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. Reminds me of the coinflip rush I was on the other day.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to convert anyone away from the mechanical play that 2+2 advocates but I want to show that there is another side to poker than just the strict mathmatics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you are. You're just to ***** to head over to Poker Theory and try to convince David Sklansky.

grjr

04-10-2005, 12:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, but I can't see any reason to believe this. Math dictates that everything will happen within certain parameters, but you can't predict based on what happened the last hand how things will go this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you believe in hot and cold streaks then you should consider believing in the ability to perceive them as they're happening.

[ QUOTE ]
You have 22 on the Button. Four limpers to you. You haven't hit a set in an hour. If you're folding here because you are on a bad streak, that's bad poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your words not mine.

rusellmj

04-10-2005, 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have 22 on the Button. Four limpers to you. You haven't hit a set in an hour. If you're folding here because you are on a bad streak, that's bad poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your words not mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I really want to be a long term winner, aren't I obligated to make the correct/mathmatical play regardless of what's happened in the last two hours, days, weeks?

flo

04-10-2005, 02:08 PM

Bonus period? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

grjr

04-10-2005, 02:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have 22 on the Button. Four limpers to you. You haven't hit a set in an hour. If you're folding here because you are on a bad streak, that's bad poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your words not mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I really want to be a long term winner, aren't I obligated to make the correct/mathmatical play regardless of what's happened in the last two hours, days, weeks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, of course. My response meant that Entity's 22 hand was his example of a marginal call/fold situation and not mine.

There are many situations where the math is 50/50 either way. If I had 22 UTG I would probably fold it if I was losing and call if I was winning.

Most inexperienced gamblers will play too many hands in an attempt to catch up when they're losing. This can lead to a large downswing. I prefer to play fewer hands or, even better, move to a better situation.

One other thing then I'm going to get off this subject. I've seen people complaining of a bad run of cards for weeks or more. If your bad run lasts that long it's not a bad run it's bad poker. Step back and find out what you're doing wrong.

Entity

04-10-2005, 03:47 PM

That 22 hand isn't meant to be marginal. I twas meant to ask what you'd do when you're running bad.

Also, your understanding of how long one can run bad without playing bad is a bit deficient. The best player on these forums has posted breakeven streaks of 30k hands.

You should be limping UTG with 22 if game conditions allow it, and fold it otherwise. Trusting luck in that situation -- limping when you've been running well and folding when you've been running bad -- is bad poker.

grjr

04-10-2005, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, your understanding of how long one can run bad without playing bad is a bit deficient. The best player on these forums has posted breakeven streaks of 30k hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think the quality of this player's opponents during this run would make a big difference. If it was against similar good players then it could be explained. If it was against your typical .50/1 bad player then it is either bad playing or staying too long in bad situations (while either not recognizing it's a bad situation or being stubborn and not acknowledging it's a bad situation).

This is the very thing I try to avoid by leaving bad situations early (which you labeled as tilt). Perhaps if this good player had tried this he would have made some money along the way. Maybe not, I don't know but it probably wouldn't have been any worse. All I know is it works well for me.