7SFAP at Low Limits

[Achilles517]

I recently bought Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players and have been reading it pretty much nonstop lately - great book. Unfortunately, my bankroll won't really allow me to play anything higher than 5-10, and I usually play 1-5, with a .50 cent ante, $1 bring in. Roughly speaking, what parts of the book are applicable at low limits? I know that it was designed for mid limit stud, where the idea is (generally) to knock out players and get lots of heads up pots, whereas low limit seems to be about trapping them, and getting them to go to far with bad hands. Any advice?

[Ray Zee]

thnxs for buying the book the extra money comes in handy.:)
the higher the ante the more it applies to smaller games. with a half buck ante its almost close to the mid limit games in structure, so you do need to play stronger and less trapping as you start out fighting for a pot that has something in it. (three bucks plus the buck you put in before the raise). the big difference or one of them is that the games will be less agressive so you can get in cheap with straight and smaller flush cards and make them pay when you have big pairs.

Hi, i play low limit and you need to get player out!, bad player will stay around anyway. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif Also low limit players do not raise much, so you can control the game with raises and will bigger pots. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif play less hands and win more. Ron /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

[Rich P.]

Here's some more practical advice:

Trapping is important when you have a big hand, but when you have a big pair, you must get opponents to fold. Here's how you do it in most low limit games.

First, you are playing 1-5 spread limit. If the house takes a percentage of the pot up to a certain amount, meaning that there is money in the pot to fight over, almost always bet the full 5 from the start. If the house takes the rake right-away, meaning there is little or no money in the pot, a 3 or four dollar bet will likely be sufficient to knock all but one or two players out, which is exactly what you want.

Be careful. Look out for "rocks". Consider what the opponents who call you may have.

Second, keep the pot small, then make your opponents pay a big or double bet. Check-raise or re-raise a bet to your immediate or near immediate right. You sometimes need to check-raise big pairs if you think your opponent to your right will bet if you check. If no one bets, and no one improves on fifth street, you can bet the full big bet. Many of your opponents will now fold seeing little sense in calling the full bet to win a small pot.

Finally, be prepared to re-raise or check raise the big bet. Don't chicken out on the later streets just because it's more money. Be reasonably sure that you have a better hand than the raiser or at least a bigger live kicker than the raiser's big pair, in which case you absolutely need to get heads-up. Low limit players don't like to cold-call a double big bet.

Finally, prepare to be hated, but respected. Also, begin to consider how your opponents will begin to perceive you. Your opponents may be uninformed, and your plays my appear bizzare to them. They may begin calling you, which you want and don't want. This means that you may not be able to play some marginal hands, but you will be getting good odds on your drawing hands.

"Finally, prepare to be hated, but respected."
Low limit players frequently play for fun. They usually know each other. If you come in raising and stealing, you will get negative feedback. When I play low limits in my local casino, even though I know the players, and the better players understand why I am raising, they still don't like it. Sometimes they will reraise to mess up my strategy, and draw out on me on purpose. They want to slow me down to their speed.
When I raise or reraise in mid limit games in L.A. it is quite normal and all the points in the book are very accurate. I constantly reread that book. My opponents only get pissed off if I win, not if I raise. They are delighted when I misread their hands, miss a bet, or give a free card and lose. It can be quite treacherous.
Frequently in low limit games, on third street there will be no pot to steal. The house will take the drop and there is only one dollar in the pot. You raise to 5 and take it down, and everyone looks at you like you are a fool to give the house the rake and no one gets to play. They don't care if you had AA/K, they came to play.
What I find that works best in low limit stud is to relax and have fun, ( and play your best game). Be friendly and liked and your raises won't be offensive. Also, a technique I use to build the pot is, when someone bets 1 chip and gets called, I will make it 2 or 3 chips and get called by 4 or 5 players. This is easier for them to absorb. I am now getting 4.5 to 1 for every bet I make. You are going to get callers anyway so you might as well build the pot on the early streets. Sometimes they hit and you don't , but when you do hit you are getting paid correct odds for it.
-KeithO

[Andy B]

In games in places other than California, the full drop isn't taken right away. The rake is a percentage, and if you steal the antes, there isn't any rake (at least in my local room that's the case).

I have had many long and productive sessions of low-limit stud without check-raising once. I rarely check-raise more than once or twice per low-limit stud session. First off, it doesn't work often enough. Folks are more than happy to take free cards. Often, it doesn't have the desired effect. I want to tie people on, they fold. I want people to fold, they decide that the pot's too big to fold. Check-raising also antagonizes some opponents, and this can take them out of a gambling mood. This is bad.

I have found 7CS4AP to be highly applicable to low-limit games with high antes. Since a $1-5 game is probably going to be looser than a $30/60 game, you want to pay particular attention to the loose games section of that book, and apply those concepts to the other material in the book. There might be something that says to raise to get a certain hand heads-up. If the raise isn't going to get people out, however, you shouldn't raise for that reason. A raise may still be correct, but you may have to alter your strategy radically for you loose opponents.

[Rich P.]

I really appreciate the comments. I really don't want to turn opponents off to gambling. I do face certain problems with my strategy. First, opponents eventually see that I'm raising and check rasing with big pairs, so they will start to fold early or, alternative, call me more. Both of these I want, but sometimes it makes things tougher. So I think I have to modify my approach after a couple hours of play to sometimes just limp with pairs, especially if I'm first in, and play more draws.