The "Take the Job" Thread...

[Nate tha' Great]

I just came across the long "take the job" thread, and something about it rang a little false IMO.

The main thing, I think, is that the business world isn't really for everyone, particularly something like management consulting. The work can be just as stressful and monotonous as online poker, and while you'll surely make some friends along the way, you'll also meet a lot of unpleasant, incompetent, and just plain old dull bosses and coworkers. Also, working on a fairly rigid schedule and under constant supervision can be something of a shock for someone just coming out of college. The business world has lots of 'grinders' too.

I think the poster should probably take the job, if only because it's MUCH easier to go from job --> poker than the other way around. However, it's difficult to make an authoritative judgement not knowning the guy personally in terms of his values and priorities, or what other sorts of things he's got going on in his life. If he's got some other stuff going on aside from poker, like an active social network or some other significant hobbies/interests/creative outlets, then that makes the decision much different.

I also want to comment on the notion that it's very difficult to play 45-50 hours of online poker in a week. It's true that I don't play nearly that much, nor do I know really anyone that does, but a lot of that IMO is that you don't *need* to play that many hours because you can usually get to a very comfortable income with quite a bit less. In other words, I don't know that pro poker players are hitting some sort of wall at like 30 hours so much as they're simply behaving rationally with respect to diminishing marginal utility from additional income.

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
I also want to comment on the notion that it's very difficult to play 45-50 hours of online poker in a week. It's true that I don't play nearly that much, nor do I know really anyone that does, but a lot of that IMO is that you don't *need* to play that many hours because you can usually get to a very comfortable income with quite a bit less. In other words, I don't know that pro poker players are hitting some sort of wall at like 30 hours so much as they're simply behaving rationally with respect to diminishing marginal utility from additional income.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a point that I was going to make on the thread as well. I'm not a professional by any means, but it just seems to me that even playing for 3 weeks and then taking a week off would do a lot to prevent burnout. The income will be less, but as long as you're comfortable with the income made from only 3 weeks, this would be a good plan.

[scrub]

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[ QUOTE ]
I also want to comment on the notion that it's very difficult to play 45-50 hours of online poker in a week. It's true that I don't play nearly that much, nor do I know really anyone that does, but a lot of that IMO is that you don't *need* to play that many hours because you can usually get to a very comfortable income with quite a bit less. In other words, I don't know that pro poker players are hitting some sort of wall at like 30 hours so much as they're simply behaving rationally with respect to diminishing marginal utility from additional income.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a point that I was going to make on the thread as well. I'm not a professional by any means, but it just seems to me that even playing for 3 weeks and then taking a week off would do a lot to prevent burnout. The income will be less, but as long as you're comfortable with the income made from only 3 weeks, this would be a good plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only playing a few hours a day works pretty well, too...

scrub

[sublime]

nate, welcome back brutha.

[kt421]

You make excellent points. I just left a high paying job in the business world to do activist work. I'm hoping my game develops to the point where I can make a decent wage and still do the activism.

If you told me I'd have to put a suit on and work 50+ in the office again, I'd run screaming in the other direction.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, I don't know that pro poker players are hitting some sort of wall at like 30 hours so much as they're simply behaving rationally with respect to diminishing marginal utility from additional income.

[/ QUOTE ]

A big part of the diminishing utility is the burnout that comes from playing many many hours of online poker. It's a combination of that and the extra income not meaning as much.

[AncientPC]

Good stuff as usual Nate.

[ginko]

I think once you get to high enough stakes, you could easily pull 200k+ a year playing only a few hours a day. And you will never get burnout if you realize life is about balance. Go workout or get a hobby or something and things are great.. good post.

[Blarg]

I definitely agree and said it a lot on that other thread that burn-out is a problem no matter what you do.

My theory is that man was just not built to do the same damn thing over and over again forever until he dies. It's unnatural to always be doing the same thing, and sooner or later you're going to get bored with it no matter what it is. The only exception would be if you're doing something that's extremely deep and fulfilling and that's just deep in your soul and all about who you are as a person -- which I would guess is the case for just about nobody doing anything. And even people who find the perfect thing to do in life get bored of that too; it's just natural.

So doing one thing or the other and expecting never to feel burned out is just silly. No matter how much you love something now, you change as you grow older, and what you like changes, and after a while you've plumbed the depths of most things you're into as far as you ever will. And then you start looking for new stimuli.

Playing poker for a living won't prevent that, but neither will most any job for most anybody. In this less than perfect world, that's why we have to find other ways to make ourselves happy and fulfilled. No job is going to provide all that. You need artistic interests, intellectual interests, love interests, friendship interests, sports and fitness intetests, maybe spiritual interests, whatever. And every once in a while you may even have to dump some or the lot of them and start over.

Part of the key to happiness, I think, is not setting yourself up for unhappiness by demanding things that can't be provided. Hoping to be perpetually constantly thrilled or intrigued by anything, including poker or by any other job, is just unrealistic and can't be your criterion for choosing either one over the other. All the arguments for and against either will wash away over time, and you'll be left with more realistic ways to judge either way of earning a living -- how much do they let you do the other things in life that are important to you, from spending time with your family and friends to pursuing hobbies and interests to traveling to, well, all the rest of life.

Some of these things cannot be done without money, some without time, some without undrained emotional or physical resources. If either poker or a regular job take from you the things you need for happiness, then what they provide in recompense may not matter. There are plenty of very high earners who work so hard they have no time for their wives and wind up losing them, and in the process lose their homes and half their income to boot. Okay, so they have their money(or at least half of it), but what about the happiness they thought they were getting by working so hard for so long? Wasn't it really the happiness that was the whole point in the first place? Yet they almost guaranteed they wouldn't get happiness because of the way they tried to earn it, and wound up being well on the path to an early heart attack without their children, their wife, or their home. I've known LOTS of these guys; it's dirt common among high achievers in the law and business worlds. It's one of the reasons alcoholism and drug abuse are so common in certain fields. You work like hell, doing something you don't necessarily enjoy very much and often around some frankly pretty nasty people, until you lose everything you were working for in the first place. And then all you're left with is the same pointless spinning wheel to keep running the rat race on -- the one that got you to where you are in the first place. And no way out.

No job is going to solve your life for you or make you perpetually happy. You can't be looking to a job for that, because those things have little to do with what you do for a living. The most any job can do is give you the resources with which to pursue the other important things in your life -- or take them away. There are rare exceptions, like the scientist who becomes absolutely absorbed for a lifetime with his research or the artist who simply does what he wants to do all day for a lifetime and finds a way to get paid for it. Poker may even provide that for a small percentage of the pros playing it, as may a business career. But if most of us are going to find our particular brand of happiness, it's not going to have much to do with doing the same thing for eight or ten hours a day, five days a week, for the rest of our lives. It's going to be all about what happens outside those hours, and the real value of most of our jobs will probably be the extent to which they leave us strong and whole and able to pursue other interests.

[helpmeout]

Not everyone is good enough to make a good income at poker playing 20-30 hours a week nor will the games be good enough for so long to allow for such a cruisey lifestyle.

Studying for a career, getting offered a high paying job and not taking it is pure stupidity.

If after a few years you find yourself hating the job or the work environment then sure play poker.

[bicyclekick]

Since I'll be going pro in about a month I thought I'd chime in quickly.

You talk about not needing to work to pay the bills etc. If you get good enough (and not even taht good, really) you could play full time for a month online, and take the rest of the year off and have plenty of money (assuming you're young and single...more variables make this tougher.)

Based on what I've made already this year I could take the next 4 years off and be fine. But it's not that simple. It's not about the next year, or the next 4 years, it's about 20 years from now, 40 years from now, etc. Give yourself more options/comfort/flexibility in the future so you can have more chances at happyness. Make tons of money while it's there and easy (reletive to most jobs people can get), you never know when it might go away for one reason or another. That's why I'll be playing quite a bit even though I have 0 need for money short-term. I agree completely that in the short term, there is almost no marginal utility to having the money...but long term...it will help out a ton.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not about the next year, or the next 4 years, it's about 20 years from now, 40 years from now, etc. Give yourself more options/comfort/flexibility in the future so you can have more chances at happyness. Make tons of money while it's there and easy (reletive to most jobs people can get), you never know when it might go away for one reason or another.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

If you can get enough money together so that you can put away 500k or so in good investments (most likely real estate), you can live off of that interest for the rest of your life. Then you have the freedom to live life as you please.

95% of jobs don't allow you to possibly retire at 30, poker does.

[Nate tha' Great]

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I agree completely that in the short term, there is almost no marginal utility to having the money...but long term...it will help out a ton.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damnit, I should never have bought that Playstation. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bicyclekick]

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I agree completely that in the short term, there is almost no marginal utility to having the money...but long term...it will help out a ton.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damnit, I should never have bought that Playstation. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I don't buy world of warcraft. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[arkady]

get God of War. lordy it good.

[Paluka]

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95% of jobs don't allow you to possibly retire at 30, poker does.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[sfer]

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If you can get enough money together so that you can put away 500k or so in good investments (most likely real estate), you can live off of that interest for the rest of your life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know real estate paid interest.

[Paluka]

I just want to point something out. There is basically 0% overlap of these 2 groups of people: 1) the people who are happy living frugally and could live for 30 years on 500k + interest 2) the people who are capable of making 500k at poker before they are 30.

[Schneids]

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I agree completely that in the short term, there is almost no marginal utility to having the money...but long term...it will help out a ton.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damnit, I should never have bought that Playstation. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Remind me to send Sony a thank you card.

[einbert]

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95% of jobs don't allow you to possibly retire at 30, poker does.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you've been reading twoplustwo for a while then I seriously doubt that.

[okayplayer]

I agree. I was getting burned out when I was working a job that I didn't really like and then playing 4-5hrs a night and then getting 6-7hrs of sleep. And it wasn't playing poker that was burning me out (it was one of the things I'd look forward to and really enjoy) it was the drab monotony of my job (during my "downtime" which was ~40% of the year, I'd spend on 2+2) and having to work for assholes (consulting sucks like that).

I now "work" much less, 40 hrs a week instead of the 40hrs (sometimes upwards of 60) plus 10hrs of driving plus 25hrs of poker per week. I now get a full night's sleep and am now working out regularly again. I am much more happy.

[bicyclekick]

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I agree completely that in the short term, there is almost no marginal utility to having the money...but long term...it will help out a ton.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damnit, I should never have bought that Playstation. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Remind me to send Sony a thank you card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll definately stop by and sign it too!

[bicyclekick]

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95% of jobs don't allow you to possibly retire at 30, poker does.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously doubt that is the stupidest thing you've ever read. Also, if the games stay as good as they are or even get somewhat worse, it's definately within the realm of possibility. We're not talking about 500k though...maybe more like 3 mil for good players (in 10 years). I don't know all that much but I bet one could retire in their early 30's on 3 mil? Maybe not though. Either way you'd be comfortable. If you lived til 80 that would be 60k to spend per year.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
If you lived til 80 that would be 60k to spend per year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Inflation bro. 60k ain't [censored] when you'll be 80.

[iceman5]

If you invest the money correctly, you can with draw 4% per year forever and have almost no chance of running out of money (includes inflation rising)

$3 million could provide you with $120,000 per year forever.

Why do alot of people thing the games wont be this good for long? Ive been hearing that for a while now. Ive also been hearing for a long time that people will get tired of losing all their money in Vegas and stop going, but at no time has there not been a new hotel/casino being built in Vegas.

[bicyclekick]

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If you lived til 80 that would be 60k to spend per year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Inflation bro. 60k ain't [censored] when you'll be 80.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you put your money in INGDirect you can cover inflation. If you are wiser with your investments you can surely make more than 3%, 'bro'.

[Blarg]

You only want $20k per year interest per million?

[Blarg]

I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[James282]

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I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know 5 people personally that are 25 and younger who will make that much this year, and none of them drive a car over 25k.
-James

[scrub]

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I know 5 people personally that are 25 and younger who will make that much this year, and none of them drive a car over 25k.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

I know a few who do.

scrub

[og5]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know 5 people personally that are 25 and younger who will make that much this year, and none of them drive a car over 25k.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

What jobs do they have to be making that much? Just curious.

[James282]

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I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know 5 people personally that are 25 and younger who will make that much this year, and none of them drive a car over 25k.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

What jobs do they have to be making that much? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Professional poker player.
-James

[og5]

LOL should have known /images/graemlins/smile.gif Congrats to them

[Blarg]

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I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know 5 people personally that are 25 and younger who will make that much this year, and none of them drive a car over 25k.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

What jobs do they have to be making that much? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Professional poker player.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

They're rare birds, as you should well know. Most kids don't have all that much self control or really realize the value of money.

Then again, all the kids I've known with that kind of money at that age got it from their very rich dads. Maybe it's a little different if you actually earn it.

The sample size of 25 year old kids earning $300k a year is probably too small to tell.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fwiw I'm probably gonna spend 35-40k on a car when I graduate in a month. So far the front runners are: Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 325xi. For now I drive a crappy van I got from my parents. Mb worth 4k tops. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[James282]

It's a rare person that can make this much at this age. Most people won't make this much in the first place unless they properly value money...and thus won't be likel to spray it away on something as vanity driven as an ultra expensive car.
-James

[Paluka]

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95% of jobs don't allow you to possibly retire at 30, poker does.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously doubt that is the stupidest thing you've ever read. Also, if the games stay as good as they are or even get somewhat worse, it's definately within the realm of possibility. We're not talking about 500k though...maybe more like 3 mil for good players (in 10 years). I don't know all that much but I bet one could retire in their early 30's on 3 mil? Maybe not though. Either way you'd be comfortable. If you lived til 80 that would be 60k to spend per year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying it is impossible to retire off poker. That isn't what is retarded about it at all. Here is what is retarded:

Lots of people can beat partypoker 15/30 and make 150k a year and make a good living. But only the very best are going to make the kind of money that you would need to make to talk about retiring. Chances are the very best poker players have the talents necessary to make a lot of money in a lot of different ways, so claiming that poker is the only thing they can do to make this much money is absurd. I know 27 year old kids on wall street who make $1 million dollars a year.

[DrGutshot]

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I agree completely that in the short term, there is almost no marginal utility to having the money...but long term...it will help out a ton.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damnit, I should never have bought that Playstation. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I don't buy world of warcraft. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Buy it, and come play on server sargeras.

If you remind me about the tens of thousands in potential value I have lost by playing it, I will cry like a little girl. I'm still in denial.

-DrG

[ggbman]

I think that being an online poker pro is a great job for a very select few people. Some players exponentially more money playing than they could doing anything else. As someone pointed out, most of the best players are intelligent enough that they could come up with other ways to make the money. For a lot of people who could make say 100-150K a year playing, the thought is tempting, and this is a very good living. But the bottom line is, making this much money, you will have to play for quite some time, a few decades to be sure. There is no assirance the games will stay as good, that your love for the game will stay consistent, etc... I think for most people the best thing to do is have a job and try to supplmement the income with poker. I am definintly amongst the youngest posters on this forum, and i know i's make considerably more as a full time pro then i will make coming out of college. That said, i don't seriously entertain the idea of going pro because i don't want to be tied down to one thing for the rest of my life, especially when i can still do in addition to other ambitions. One a complete sidebar, biycyclekick, since your not a "full-time" pro yet, how mahy hrs/week are you playing to make this kind of money?

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
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I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fwiw I'm probably gonna spend 35-40k on a car when I graduate in a month. So far the front runners are: Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 325xi. For now I drive a crappy van I got from my parents. Mb worth 4k tops. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

do us a favor and buy a car about a year old and save 20k

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fwiw I'm probably gonna spend 35-40k on a car when I graduate in a month. So far the front runners are: Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 325xi. For now I drive a crappy van I got from my parents. Mb worth 4k tops. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Do us all a favor and don't post any 'screenshots' of your car and how it's running on any given days...

[Michael Davis]

"Do us all a favor and don't post any 'screenshots' of your car and how it's running on any given days..."

NH.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
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I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fwiw I'm probably gonna spend 35-40k on a car when I graduate in a month. So far the front runners are: Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 325xi. For now I drive a crappy van I got from my parents. Mb worth 4k tops. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

A few weeks ago I visited a friend with a new TL. I can't wrap my head around spending that much money on a car, but I was incredibly impressed with it when I drove it. I think it was more fun than the 3-series that I've driven, although it wasn't as roomy in the back.

scrub

[Moyer]

Another thing is, say you are a very profitable poker player and you retire at 30. Is there some rule that you can never have income again? All that means to me is you no longer have to play 20-30hrs/wk if you don't want to. You could take a break from it for a few months, then start playing 8 or 10hrs/wk, or whenever you're interested. You could play just live games, tournaments only, or whatever seems like the most fun.

Also, I'm sure if you're 30yrs old and have all the time in the world on your hands, you could find some other cool ways to supplement your income if needed.

[bicyclekick]

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I think the biggest problem is young kids would be very likely to M.C. Hammer most of their cash down the drain. I can't imagine a 25 year old kid making $300k a year driving a $25,000 car.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fwiw I'm probably gonna spend 35-40k on a car when I graduate in a month. So far the front runners are: Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 325xi. For now I drive a crappy van I got from my parents. Mb worth 4k tops. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Do us all a favor and don't post any 'screenshots' of your car and how it's running on any given days...

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif BURN!!!

[jrobb83]

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Fwiw I'm probably gonna spend 35-40k on a car when I graduate in a month. So far the front runners are: Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 325xi.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's the Audi A4?

And btw, you could spend 26k on a Subaru WRX and kick the ass of all of these cars for at least 10k less $$.

[bicyclekick]

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Fwiw I'm probably gonna spend 35-40k on a car when I graduate in a month. So far the front runners are: Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 325xi.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's the Audi A4?

And btw, you could spend 26k on a Subaru WRX and kick the ass of all of these cars for at least 10k less $$.

[/ QUOTE ]

The A4 was on an earlier list of mine but a few people talked me away from it. I'll still probably test drive it, but it's not a front runner. Oh, and thanks for the reminder on the WRX, I wanted to look at that car too. That was another one I was eyeing befor as well.

Any others?

[jrobb83]

The Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VIII is in the same vein as the WRX and has a bit more power. But it costs more and is uglier and looks cheaper than the WRX (imo).

Looks like you've got pretty much all the top small luxury/sports sedans out there though. If you want, the Volvo S40 T5 is similar to the others. My mom bought a new Volvo last year and I've been very impressed with it.

[Michael Davis]

Make sure to tell them you are paying in straight cash upfront.

-Michael

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Make sure to tell them you are paying in straight cash upfront.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering about that actually. So you're saying go to the bank withdraw 40k and go test drive? Or go test drive, say you're going to pay cash and then when I make my decision, drive to the bank, pick up the money, go back and buy the car.

[Michael Davis]

Naw, I'm just saying if you're paying in cash, let them know that. It gives you more bargaining room and they will pretty much bend over for you.

-Michael

[bicyclekick]

Right, I know that. I'm just curious which method to take.

[Michael Davis]

I don't think you need to throw it in their face. Just bringing it at purchase is fine. Although wearing a necklace made of hundred dollar bills might be cool.

-Michael

[Nate tha' Great]

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Naw, I'm just saying if you're paying in cash, let them know that. It gives you more bargaining room and they will pretty much bend over for you.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also wear some sunglasses and funky clothes, since it's fun for them to think you're a drug dealer. I got some dirty looks at my local Best Buy just for paying for my plasma screen in cash.

[Peter_rus]

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I know a few who do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like my car:)

Wasting money for needless-looking things seems dumb but until they make someone to be happy currently - they're worth having. You don't need to think about how much money you will spent monthly at your 50's. If you're young - your time is now. Let yourself to think about it when you'll be at 35-40. And don't waste your youth to smart far-going predicts and other self-limiting stuff.

[helpmeout]

You have to live well within your means even more so for a poker player because of the uncertain future/high risk.

Throwing money away is why so many people with high incomes are in debt and work for 40 years instead of 10.

When you buy a new car you only buy it for one year its no longer that great when the next model comes out.

If buying this kind of crap makes you happy then you should look in the mirror.

[Peter_rus]

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Throwing money away is why so many people with high incomes are in debt and work for 40 years instead of 10.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will certainly work all my life and have no purpose not to do it as i like it and doing my work succesfully makes me feel happy. And i don't afraid to be in dept - i used to and i didn't felt uncomfortably.

[ QUOTE ]
When you buy a new car you only buy it for one year its no longer that great when the next model comes out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not cars fan, but if i'll become one in future - i guess i'll buy them a lot if i have opportunity - if i won't have opportunity - i will seek how to find it and this will fulfil my life and make it of high quality.

[ QUOTE ]
If buying this kind of crap makes you happy then you should look in the mirror.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tryed and find smiled guy with clear mind full of ideas and purposes.

No matter what kind of crap makes you happy, it's more important either you're happy or no.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to point something out. There is basically 0% overlap of these 2 groups of people: 1) the people who are happy living frugally and could live for 30 years on 500k + interest 2) the people who are capable of making 500k at poker before they are 30.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's lack of overlap, if you planned to live on 500K for the next 30 years a lot of us could do it. The problem is once you make 500K, you are "rich" and you start to spend a lot of it. Samething happens to all those rock stars that made a fortune but spent it all.

[goofball]

I've figured I would need about $5M to retire right now (at age 22).


WSOP Main Event here I come :-)

[morello]

[ QUOTE ]
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95% of jobs don't allow you to possibly retire at 30, poker does.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously doubt that is the stupidest thing you've ever read. Also, if the games stay as good as they are or even get somewhat worse, it's definately within the realm of possibility. We're not talking about 500k though...maybe more like 3 mil for good players (in 10 years). I don't know all that much but I bet one could retire in their early 30's on 3 mil? Maybe not though. Either way you'd be comfortable. If you lived til 80 that would be 60k to spend per year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying it is impossible to retire off poker. That isn't what is retarded about it at all. Here is what is retarded:

Lots of people can beat partypoker 15/30 and make 150k a year and make a good living. But only the very best are going to make the kind of money that you would need to make to talk about retiring. Chances are the very best poker players have the talents necessary to make a lot of money in a lot of different ways, so claiming that poker is the only thing they can do to make this much money is absurd. I know 27 year old kids on wall street who make $1 million dollars a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many people that can make 150k a year playing poker would even have a shot at getting an interview for the chance to work on wall street? From what I understand, it's quite difficult to get a good job in that area.

[JohnnyHumongous]

[ QUOTE ]
How many people that can make 150k a year playing poker would even have a shot at getting an interview for the chance to work on wall street? From what I understand, it's quite difficult to get a good job in that area.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and no. By percentages traders come from less prestigious schools on average than banking, consulting etc. Barging in and getting an interview is not that uncommon actually. My buddy who interned on a fixed income desk said a couple of the traders came in off the street to apply for the job. These companies want people who can bring in the bacon, period, and in trading that means quick with numbers, great instincts and pattern recognition abilities, "intense" personality and skin as tough as a crocodile's. Tons of athletes with mediocre to poor GPAs from decent schools become traders.

Incidentally, I asked an alumni of my school who is a trader with UBS how the company would look upon poker and he said if I could explain it in a 'business' sense, i.e. how it is not gambling but a profit opportunity, they would look positively on it.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
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95% of jobs don't allow you to possibly retire at 30, poker does.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously doubt that is the stupidest thing you've ever read. Also, if the games stay as good as they are or even get somewhat worse, it's definately within the realm of possibility. We're not talking about 500k though...maybe more like 3 mil for good players (in 10 years). I don't know all that much but I bet one could retire in their early 30's on 3 mil? Maybe not though. Either way you'd be comfortable. If you lived til 80 that would be 60k to spend per year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying it is impossible to retire off poker. That isn't what is retarded about it at all. Here is what is retarded:

Lots of people can beat partypoker 15/30 and make 150k a year and make a good living. But only the very best are going to make the kind of money that you would need to make to talk about retiring. Chances are the very best poker players have the talents necessary to make a lot of money in a lot of different ways, so claiming that poker is the only thing they can do to make this much money is absurd. I know 27 year old kids on wall street who make $1 million dollars a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many people that can make 150k a year playing poker would even have a shot at getting an interview for the chance to work on wall street? From what I understand, it's quite difficult to get a good job in that area.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker has the lowest barriers to entry of any job. While there are always stories of guys who become wealthy doing this or that and didn't come from a family with money or connections, most of what makes us remember those stories and want to repeat them is how unusual they are, and how good it makes us feel that "even" the underdog can win sometimes, through extraordinary luck, timing, brains, and/or tenacity. The fact is, there are more significant obstacles in the way to get established in any great job than there are for poker, and some of those obstacles are extremely difficult to overcome no matter how smart you are.

I'd say your chance of making a million a year at 27 are pretty tiny regardless of who you are and what you do, but for the kid who is really without money or connections -- and face it, few of us will admit we have them or that they mattered in getting us to where we are -- it's far less likely he'll get within sniffing distance of that kind of money at that age probably doing anything but playing poker.

The path to great jobs is a walk in the park for the connected, moneyed, and carefully prepared rich and upper middle class kid compared to the minefield laying in wait for the unconnected and kids of lower classes, who are busy working just to keep a roof over their heads or help their families out. Poker is the most level playing field the latter could possibly find, whereas to others, all playing fields are level, or perhaps can even be looked down upon from a considerable height.

[diddle]

I'm in a similar position as OP right now.


Everyone likes to say "Take the job and it's not even close."

What about a person who has already been playing poker professionally for several years, making six figurees per year, and has saved most of that?

They say time is money.

In this case, taking the job means giving up time and money now for future rewards. I'm not sure that the future rewards are enough to compensate.

[Soul Rebel]

Do yourself a favor and buy a 3 or 4 year old BMW, preferably a 5 series. You can get a 540 for a hell of a lot cheaper, have money left to hook it up, and have no monthly payments. Buying a new 3 series for $40,000 is a complete waste of money. Hell, for $40k, you can probably find a three-year old used M5. My '94 5-series is still in incredible shape, and will last another 8 or 9 years. Oh yeah, its still a blast to drive.

[bicyclekick]

Thanks for the input, I'll look into it.

Where does the monthly payments part come in? I'll be paying cash up front...not taking a lone or anything.

[Your Mom]

As long as buying the car isn't going to want to make you buy all kinds of other crap, just buy the best [censored] car you can find. One splurge isn't going to hurt if you're making the kind of bank I think you're making. I want to see pictures. I find it motivating. Congrats on your success.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as buying the car isn't going to want to make you buy all kinds of other crap, just buy the best [censored] car you can find. One splurge isn't going to hurt if you're making the kind of bank I think you're making. I want to see pictures. I find it motivating. Congrats on your success.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. I agree, one splurge of an extra 10k-15k to get what I want is totally reasonable.

I'm still too thrifty for my own good though. I've spent a decent amount, but much less than most people my age would. I actually have a few friends that kidna give me [censored] for it haha. As james282 said yesterday "i'm hesitant to go spend 300 on something i want but have no problem bluff-raising the river for 300 and losing it". Just kinda weird that way.

[ QUOTE ]
I want to see pictures.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know I'm always good for a screen shot.

[sublime]

get a tony montana style caddy

[billyjex]

the reason question is, how big of rims are you gonna put on this thing? dubs don't cut it anymore, you need 24's!

[Soul Rebel]

If you're paying cash for it, thats all the more reason to get it used. You drop probably 5,000 in taxes and depreciation the second you drive a new car off the lot. I have friends who have gotten incredible deals on cars from ebay, so check that out. Get whatever you want, but get it used from someone who's taken care of it, you really can't go wrong here. The german cars generally last a really long time if taken care of. I'm expecting 250k miles out of mine, others have gotten way more with the same car.

[dankhank]

the way this thread evolved isn't exactly a stirring endorsement for working for a living.

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
Naw, I'm just saying if you're paying in cash, let them know that. It gives you more bargaining room and they will pretty much bend over for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily true...I use to sell cars and honestly it made little difference to us--the money the banks gave us worked just as well and its a lot less counting and stacking. Of course it we got a customer who wants to pay in cash we let them know that they are special and "we will get them the very best deal." /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[skp]

Take the Acura TL. It's a beaut.

[elmo]

[ QUOTE ]
the way this thread evolved isn't exactly a stirring endorsement for working for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that is the point

[elmo]

Ever since I was 13 and started to work full-time over the summer, I hated it. I hate going to bed at 11 and getting up at 6, I hate doing busy work, I hate putting up with people's BS at work.

I'm 20, and have one more year at school as an undergrad business major, and then I am moving right into full-time poker. Let me tell you, I won't buy a $25,000+ car, a huge plasma TV, or extravagent vacations. I have an interest in real estate, and I play to use the vast majority of my income from my first few years to start investing in a few different areas. I am closing on my first house next month, and am thrilled as hell about where poker has allowed me to be financially.

I would argue that there are definitly careers where poker-> job is better/easier than a job->poker. The sooner I can earn money and get my projects going, the better.

That being said, I realize that I will have to deal with some severely negative social aspects from this profession. I already had my first experience of meeting a girlfriend's parents and explaining what I'd be doing over the summer... that went well.

When I was first considering poker as a full time occupation, I had to ask my pro friends what their experiences were. Now, I can't imagine doing anything else. Thanks to everyone here at the forums who have helped me find my professional calling.

[Bjorn]

[ QUOTE ]

95% of jobs don't allow you to possibly retire at 30, poker does.

[/ QUOTE ]

This might've been said already but it's pretty obvious that the job in the "Take the Job" thread is NOT in the bottom 95% of all jobs.

The job talked about there gives you potential to change a lot of peoples lives (if your the altruistic type) or simply to wield an amazing amount of power if that's what ticks your fancy.

Ultimatly a small fraction of a percent of people make a majority of the important decitions for this planet. I would find an entry ticket to that tournament very appealing. This job might just be that or at least to a satelite of it...
/images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

/Bjorn