Hand from Foxwoods 5K

[shaniac]

Blinds 50/100. I have around 5K and UTG has me covered by a couple thousand.

UTG raises to 400 I make it 1000 to go with AK in utg+1. Folded back to UTG who calls. Flops is AT2 with 2 diamonds. UTG asks me how many chips I have, checks, then checkraies me allin after I bet 1200. I call.

Your thoughts.

Shane

[bugstud]

xhop chop?

[MLG]

do you know where the A of diamonds is?

[shaniac]

Ad is on board, and I have no diamond.

Shane

[MLG]

ok, so lets put him on a range
AA - 1 way
AK - 6 ways
1010 - 3 ways
KQ diamonds - 1 way
AQ - 12 ways (im gonna discount slightly to 9 because its an insanely aggresive kamikaze play with AQ)
A10 - 9 ways (but im gonna discount to 4 because of the unliklihood of raising UTG and calling a reraise)

So out of 24 hands, you are way ahead of 9 and chopping with 6. You are buried by 8, and slightly better than even money against 1. Im too lazy to do all that math out, but i think its a call.

Also, given that the A of diamonds is out there I like checking the flop.

[betgo]

I think you have to call the checkraise. You are getting 2.5-1 odds at this point and you are only in trouble against AA or TT of the hands your opponent is likely to have. Also, if your opponent had AA, he would probably have reraised preflop. Your opponent could have a straight and/or flush draw, but he would not be significantly ahead with either.

[XChamp]

I would call all-in here in most situations. Even 50BB. If the player was very loose preflop I might not.

I don't play live often, but asking you how many chips you have then check-raising all-in is, in my mind, an attempt to push you off a hand.

Think of it this way. You reraised UTG+1. What hands are you capable of doing this with? Most likely JJ or QQ+, and AK. If I was the other player I would consider it a less likely play with AK because it's simply not a very strong hand to be reraising (especially for such a small reraise) with the rest of the field to act. When the flop comes and you bet he puts you on AK or a hand that will fold to an all-in (and you might even fold AK, as evidenced by your though here). AA is less likely since you have top set and the Ad is out. He thinks he has a good shot at winning a 3k+ pot by getting you to fold, so he tries his damnedest

I call.

[shaniac]

My primary regret is not reraising more preflop. It's a risky play to begin with, but as long as I'm at it, I might as well make it 1400 to go.

Once I've hit my best possible flop after reraising a "drawing hand" and put almost 1/2 my stack in the middle, I dont think I can fold.

Anyway, he had a set, I turned trip aces but didnt get there.

But hey that's poker, see you all next year.

Shane

[betgo]

I guess your opponent had a set of tens.

Preflop, it would probably be better to make a larger reraise or just flat call. The small reraise looks like a big pair, which might have helped you take the pot on the flop if your opponent hadn't made a set.

[Prime Time]

Tuff 1 Shane.
I think you played it correctly.
Nice seeing you again.
Pete

[youngin20]

i dont like the reraise preflop. Its ASKING him to call. basically, he can afford the 600 more to hit the set even if you have a bigger pair, because (I assume he has about 8k or so) the 600 represents less than 10% of his stack, and he could be ahead. I dont see him here checkraising with one pair. You MUST drop this on the flop. Maybe in a lower buy in tourney, but...the odds are too good for it to be a bluff, he knows you will probably call. Bascially, what did you put him on?

[Tyler Durden]

What does everyone think about coldcalling here? Very dependent on the opp. of course but when a non-imaginative player (esp. online) raises in EP and I have AK, I prefer a coldcall to see if I can flop something before committing lots of chips to the pot.

It all depends on what you think he may be raising with, but I think a coldcall is usually the way to go w/ AK utg+1 after UTG has raised.

[XChamp]

I cold-call with AK in situations like this frequently in multi's.

[betgo]

I like flat calling preflop too (I believe that is the correct term. Cold calling is, for example, if someone raises, someone else reraises, and you cold call.) Unless your opponent is putting in loose early position raises, he probably has TT, AQ, or better, so on average you are not ahead with AK.

The purpose of raising would be to win the pot on a semibluff. However, the chip numbers and your position with 8 players to act make that more difficult. The small reraise is not going to take the pot.

On the flop, you had to play as you did. You can't fold TPTK with that much money in the pot. I want to see the set.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
What does everyone think about coldcalling here? Very dependent on the opp. of course but when a non-imaginative player (esp. online) raises in EP and I have AK, I prefer a coldcall to see if I can flop something before committing lots of chips to the pot.

It all depends on what you think he may be raising with, but I think a coldcall is usually the way to go w/ AK utg+1 after UTG has raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a lot to be said for this line, keeping the pot small enough to keep you alive when this exact flop scenario presents itself.

Otoh, you give the dozen or so people left to act behind you a better opportunity to get involved with any number of hands you would prefer were not involved.

So when I play the hand this way, I have a mantra running through my head which reminds me why I am playing the hand the way I am playing the hand, and act accordingly if the action gets uncomfortable.

The worst possible thing you can do is to play the hand as you describe and then fail to get away from a bust-out situation if it jumps up and bites you in the ass.

Sort of like going for the limp-reraise with AA or KK, having the entire table limp, and then busting out when you overplay your overpair.

You sort of need to bargain with yourself when you opt for these lines, IMO.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]

I like flat calling preflop too (I believe that is the correct term. Cold calling is, for example, if someone raises, someone else reraises, and you cold call.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I've understood coldcalling to be any instance where you call a raise w/o previously having chips in the pot. Your example of a coldcall is not called a coldcall I think. It's called being a poor player or having AA and screaming it from the mountaintops.

[betgo]

Usually simply calling a raise is not refered to as cold calling. It might more often be used in a limit game if you cold called a raise and a reraise.

[Tyler Durden]

I think if UTG raises (in an NL tourney or a limit cash game) and it's folded to you on the button and you call, you've just coldcalled. I'm almost 100% sure. Otherwise I've been using the term incorrectly all this time.

[ClaytonN]

TD,

Coldcalling just means calling 2 bets preflop when you've originally invested zero bets. Original raiser does not have to be UTG.

For example, MP player raises and you coldcall in the CO with 88, etc etc etc

Not sure where the term coldcall applies in NL and PL games, though. Possibly the same.

[Rushmore]

Unless I've been sorely misguided all this time (distinctly possible, of course), cold-calling simply means calling (and not raising) any more than ONE BET when the action gets to you. I put it this way because calling more than a fraction of a bet (anywhere from one and a half to three and a half bets) from the blind in a limit game is also "cold-calling," by my estimation.

ONE BET in NL/PL must, of course, mean the big blind. any more than that, and the calling seems cold.

[Stoneii]

At the risk of completely hijacking shaniacs thread (apologies) the definition from http://www.poker-pages.net/terms.html

"Cold Call
To call more than one bet in a single action. For instance, suppose the first player to act after the big blind raises. Now any player acting after him must call two bets "cold." This is different from calling a single bet and then calling a subsequent raise."

Hope this helps

stoneii

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]

Coldcalling just means calling 2 bets preflop when you've originally invested zero bets. Original raiser does not have to be UTG

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf. i know the raiser doesn't have to be UTG. it's called an EXAMPLE. Look, you used one also!

But yes, I agree w/ your definition of a coldcall.

[XChamp]

So it is a cold call. You called the initial forced bet (big blind) and the raise at the same time.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
wtf. i know the raiser doesn't have to be UTG. it's called an EXAMPLE. Look, you used one also!

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
Usually simply calling a raise is not refered to as cold calling. It might more often be used in a limit game if you cold called a raise and a reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Betgo, you are wrong on this one.

However, it is not very common to use the term "cold call" in the context of NL; generally the term is used for limit holdem, which might be what confused you.