AQ vs. total weirdness - what's going on here?

[Grendel]

Lately I've been taking a beating so severe I'm not quite sure which way is up. The play of this hand confused me so much that I don't know what's what. Help me, 2+2ers, you're my only hope.

First orbit at table, no real reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks.

River: (10.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero...?</font>

Thanks,
-Grendel

[istewart]

I would've check-raised the flop and gone from there.

[ArturiusX]

2+2 isn't your only hope, SSHE and Miller is.

I'm not sure what you're scared of, but you need to 3-bet this. Only hands that beat you are AK and AA, too early to call those yet. 3-bet, slow down if capped. If called, lead out on the turn.

Why did you lead out on the river if you didn't on the turn?

[Shillx]

Cap preflop.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this correct considering we're out of position?

[istewart]

I think he might be advising it because of the limp reraise from MP; it looks donkish. Then again, you never know with Shill.

[Duerig]

EDIT: never mind, misread the post

[Yobz]

stewart, go back to your old avatar, it kicked total ass

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
stewart, go back to your old avatar, it kicked total ass

[/ QUOTE ]

Which?

[Yobz]

The stick man (i think it was you)

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this correct considering we're out of position?

[/ QUOTE ]

If MP3 had a good hand, wouldn't he raise the 1st time around?? I dunno maybe not but you would think so (this is pretty much out of SSHE where Ed says to cap AJs after a dump limp re-raise from an LP player). Had UTG limp-reraised I would be content with just calling since the probability of him having a big hand goes way up.

Brad

[joeski19]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
stewart, go back to your old avatar, it kicked total ass

[/ QUOTE ]

Which?

[/ QUOTE ]

Whos is that kid ? Grand Master Bud?

[istewart]

I think that was KQs Shill /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ArturiusX]

[censored], didnt see the limp reraise.

[Somekid]

I think you should definitely go for a check raise on the flop. You're either way ahead of MP3 or dominated. If you check its likely to be checked to MP3 who will bet. Then you can C/R to probably get the hand heads up. From there I would probably check call. Although maybe you could try some sort of line where you check/call the turn and lead the river (fold to a raise). Mainly I think you need to C/R the flop.

[Grendel]

Thanks for the replies.

Preflop: Is the unkown villain's stupid limp-raise-after-100-callers definately a sign of donkishness, or should I have some fear of at least AK? I need to better understand donkish behavior like this.

Flop: I lead because I figured everyone and his mother would call between me and villain (and they did), which would get more money in the pot and help define villain's hand. If I read villain for donkishness, I could have 3-bet his raise, or is check-raising still better? (In reality I just bet-called because I'm a pansy and afraid of AA/AK.)

Turn: I didn't lead because I feared AA/AK, but planned on calling down.

River: Since villain checked through on the turn, I figured my ace was goot. But after the raise I was left with the question of what hands villain would play in this manner that I beat. Sure, his donk-meter is pretty high, but high enough to warrant a 3-bet?

Thanks agian,
-Grendel

[ArturiusX]

AA/AK raise first up, like Shill said.

Worry about these a little if he cold-raised, but not if he limp re-raised.

[Buckmulligan]

i checkraise this flop.

[CourtJester]

3bet flop, call if raised and then calldown, lead turn and river if flop 3bet is called.

[KingOtter]

If some donk is limp-reraising I actually fear some bigger hands then AK. I'm thinking AA, KK, etc. For some reason AA and KK have really bad reps in the dumb-ass community, and so people who are less than bright like the limp them in, and then play them strong sometime around the turn.

That's just my impression... I've no clue about this guy.

KO

[grjr]

I've seen AKo played like this on Party a few times. The turn check was fearing a check/raise from UTG+1. After UTG+1 fold the river he's free to raise assuming you don't have an 8 due to your preflop raise.. I would defintely not reraise the river here.

[Nick C]

I think that in a pot this big, once you flop your ace, you need to work harder to protect your hand, despite the coordination of the board and the flush draw you have no piece of.

Probably I'd go for a flop checkraise. But maybe you were planning to checkraise the turn instead and whiffed. I think that's a reasonable plan too.

There's really only so much you can do, though, so I think to some extent you just have to hope your hand is best and that it'll hold up.

Anyway, as the hand played out, MP3's play is so weird that I'd probably just call his river raise, fearing he boated up on the turn and decided to slowplay.

I can't really fault you for 3-betting, though, which may in fact be better. (I can tell what you did because your action is in red.)

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank god you said it, because everyone just thinks I'm a LAG. I would call the river rather than reraising.

[Dead]

I think you're up against AK.

I like your line here.

[Grendel]

[ QUOTE ]
(I can tell what you did because your action is in red.)

[/ QUOTE ]
I always try to put my next-action question in red to highlight it... But you're right. Guilty of a gratuitous 3-bet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, as the hand played out, MP3's play is so weird that I'd probably just call his river raise, fearing he boated up on the turn and decided to slowplay.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ding ding ding! A8. Who would play A8 like this??? Or mabye this guy is a freaking genius because he sucked 2 more BB out of me...

After considering everyone's replies and immersing my head in a bucket of cold water, I realize I should have check-raised the flop and just called the river.

Thanks again for the replies,
-Grendel

[dozer]

I have come across players like this at .5 1., they are most likely a maniac that likes raising and capping to the river with crap. Against these guys I would cap preflop, cap the flop, cap the turn, cap the river. But a safer way is to just call him down with any pair. The times that you win against these players will make up for the odd times you lose.

[deepsquat]

I would have C/R the flop. If MP3 doesnt 3 bet i lead the Turn and river.

I would call thi sriver bet just to find out what he has and make a note.