Methinks My SH Game Is Broke

[JohnDaFisherman]

For some background info: I am a (relatively) winning full table micro player, to the tune of around 2 BB/100 at .50/1, but I am just getting HAMMERED at 1/2 6max. I know stats by themselves don't really tell the story, but maybe some general posting of stats will point out some general flaws, as there are no SH FAQs that I can refer to for "correct" stats, like in the Micro-limit forum.

VP$IP: 22.9%
PFR: 16.1%
Aggression: 5.91/4.22/2.46/4.17 Total
Won $ When Saw Flop: 34.7%
Went to SD: 30.5%
Won $ @ SD: 48.7%

BB/100: -7.24

The biggest question I have is: When, in general, with non-LAG opponents, do I stop pushing with 2 good overcards? (We're talking AK, AQ, and the like...stuff I would be raising preflop with, not K9.) I have found two things happening:

One: Having them just call me down when I bet into them on all streets, after catching a low pair on the flop.

Two: slowing down on the turn, and having them bet into me, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, whether they had my overs beat or not. These are players I have in my PT stats as passive players...not TAGs or LAGs.

I could REALLY use some help!

[tolbiny]

Without anything else (like sample size ect.) your two glaring holes are
Went to showdown, and won $ at showdown. Your won$ should be around 52 (obviously running bad will drop it, running good bump it up)- but in shorthanded games your Went to SD has to be above 30- probably in the 35 range (mine is 39, but i gather that is fairly high for this forum). and you probably want to do this by bumping up your raising on the flop and turn when inposition- allowing you to check behind on the river more (as opposed to calling down more).

[JohnDaFisherman]

OK...given that, here are my postflop action numbers:

Flop: Raise% 9.9, Bet% 32.2, Call 7.1%, Check 28.8%, Fold 22.0%
Turn: 3.9/33.2/8.8/34.1/20.0

For the record, the sample size was WAY too small. I understand that there is a great deal of variance in 6-max, but the losses are not happening via swings...just one long downward spiral, making me think that something is actually broke, as opposed to just running bad. If I wait until 10,000 hands, and it continues like this, I will be broke. Better to fix it now.

[JohnDaFisherman]

BUMP

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
For some background info: I am a (relatively) winning full table micro player, to the tune of around 2 BB/100 at .50/1, but I am just getting HAMMERED at 1/2 6max. I know stats by themselves don't really tell the story, but maybe some general posting of stats will point out some general flaws, as there are no SH FAQs that I can refer to for "correct" stats, like in the Micro-limit forum.

VP$IP: 22.9%
PFR: 16.1%
Aggression: 5.91/4.22/2.46/4.17 Total
Won $ When Saw Flop: 34.7%
Went to SD: 30.5%
Won $ @ SD: 48.7%

BB/100: -7.24

The biggest question I have is: When, in general, with non-LAG opponents, do I stop pushing with 2 good overcards? (We're talking AK, AQ, and the like...stuff I would be raising preflop with, not K9.) I have found two things happening:

One: Having them just call me down when I bet into them on all streets, after catching a low pair on the flop.

Two: slowing down on the turn, and having them bet into me, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, whether they had my overs beat or not. These are players I have in my PT stats as passive players...not TAGs or LAGs.

I could REALLY use some help!

[/ QUOTE ]

You're aggression seems way way high to me. Alot of times calling is the best play. You can't run over calling stations. They are going to call you down with any lousy piece of the flop. Be more patient and fold. Pick your spots and VALUE bet like crazy. Take some free cards. They will give you plenty.

The section on overcards in Ed Miller's SSH book is the best description of how to play overcards that I have seen. Review that. If you don't own a copy already run out and get one stat.

That's a couple of things that come to mind. Good luck.

[JohnDaFisherman]

Thanks!

I had a gut feeling that's what it might be. I've been warned of my excess aggression in full games, too (although not to nearly the same degree as in 6-max...I'm around 3.3 AF in full). My big concern, especially on a 6-max table where a higher level of aggression is correct, is getting bluffed excessively when I DO slow down.


<<running off to review SSHE now>>

[Mr. Graff]

[ QUOTE ]
My big concern, especially on a 6-max table where a higher level of aggression is correct, is getting bluffed excessively when I DO slow down.


[/ QUOTE ]
Calling is not a sin.

[helpmeout]

Aggression is overrated at microlimits.

When you have the nuts then dont slow down. When you dont then think about what your opponents could have and what they might be betting.

Play more hands and dont be so agro, AF of around 2 is good anything much higher is too much. It means you either are too agro or you dont call enough.

Rarely do you blast people out of pots by raising at low limits. If you have the best hand then bet if you dont call/fold.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
... and you probably want to do this by bumping up your raising on the flop and turn when inposition ...


[/ QUOTE ]

Aggression: 5.91/4.22/2.46/4.17 Total /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jeff W]

How many hands have you played?

[tolbiny]

Yeah, no kidding- just going off preflop and sd numbers makes it pretty tough to figure out mistakes- i was def way of base there.

[usmfan]

I just want to reiterate that 1/2 6max is a generally very passive game. You may get some who get a little laggy but generally calling stations abound. You can almost never push a calling station off of 2nd or even 3rd pair. Even fewer times when they have TPWK. Sit back and let your made hands, monsters and TPTK, make the money for you. Any advanced thinking like c/r bluffing is probably falling on deaf ears at 1/2.

[JohnDaFisherman]

Around 1,200 (again, a sample size WAY too small.)

UPDATE: I have re-read the overcards section of SSHE (after discovering that I had never actually read that section in the first place!) and have had much better results. Have backed off the indiscriminate aggression, and pulled myself back up close to even.

Thank y'all for yor help!

[leehrat]

i feel you bro...

i remember my jump from fullring to sh and it was just brutal at first. i owe a debt to many here who helped me out. just remember that its swingy as fukk..but the money will come in time!!!

[kiddo]

I didnt read this thread just wanted to say that when I started to play 3 yeras ago I was beating .5/1 easily and got killed at 1/2 6max (Paradise Poker). Took me 3-400BB before I understood anything at all. Even if u understand that they are bad it takes time to understand excatly how to punish them cause they all are differently bad. 6max u have to play the player, u dont when playing full .50/1.

Now Im playing 10/20SH and doing good. Dont lose faith.