Multiple Aggressive Lineup

[CreamPuff]

Alright my fellow shorthanded guru’s, here my situation:

Over the coarse of the last 4 months or so, I have improved
my shorthanded play immensely (4-6 handed). What was
once my weakest area, still is, but not to the degree.
I have a much better feel and overall am winning.

My 3 biggest losses all occurred against MULTPLIE
Aggressive opp’s..We’re talking like -$1000 playing $5/10
and -$2600, -$1900 playing $10/$20 to $15/30.
(I usually play 2-3 tables at a time, so when I lose at all 3
its trouble).

I don’t really think I am losing on the tables where
only 1 or maybe 2 players are hyper-aggressive.
I seem to counter them fairly well (inducing bluffs,
letting them bet for me, check-raising turn because I
know they can’t find the Check Button. )

In these multi-aggressive games, your blind gets raised
95% of the time. When I start running bad, and get
blinded off things go down hill fast after that.
For example, I might be folding hands like K6 for a while
In my big blind…Then I’ll pick up a hand like AT or AJ and
The next thing I know it’ll me 3 bet (2 bets to me) and
i’ll lay it down.
Then I’ll get some big hands cracked and before I know it
i’m calling in spots like the above, while cussing out the bastards
for cracking 3 big hands in a row.

When I do take a stand, I am often raising, the flop
or turn, because I want to kick out the 3rd player,
but it often backfires.

That is how a typical big loss occurs.

And when I reflect back, I would have been 3 times better off
just getting blinded off.

I’m sure some of you out there must have a great deal of
success in games like this (Ikke?)

Can some off you post a general game plan, preflop (not just
Big blind), postflop, or whatever else you want to add?
Particulary if it involves cutting down on my fluctuations.

Maybe like hands you pass on, flops you pass on..
I still think I am playing them too loosely despite how
loose they are playing.

Seem like you may be better rewarded waiting for a big
preflop hand, or big flop.

P.S. Sometimes I play late at night, and do not
always have a preferable game to choose from.

Thanks,
Humbled Cream Puff

[Ray Zee]

big difference between 4 and 6 handed. maybe you play too loose in the more populated games. but since shorthanded and agressive is so wild you may never get a real real for your results. so it would pay to only play in one game at a time to concentrate on, and maybe pick your games better. unless its just action you want, you would win faster doing it with more caution.

[CreamPuff]

"big difference between 4 and 6 handed"

The only reason I clumped them together was that the
online sites have 5 and 6 handed tables (which are
often played 3-6 handed).

I do realize the differences and do not have too many
problems in a full 6 handed games unless its wild...(For example, just
before reading this, I folded AJ off UTG in a 6 handed
game...Some might shrug at the fold, but the game
was as such if I raised, I would likely get called by
3-4 players (or reraised) and if I limped, I would
likely get raised (possibly by a weaker hand).

I would never fold a hand like this in a 9-10 handed game,
3 off the button, no limpers..But some people play way too
loose, so I just avoid situations like the above sometimes.
(If I hadn't been raising many hands, I probably would have raised)

I think I have a good feel for the difference between
HU,3 handed, 4-5 handed, and 6+.

On a somewhat related note, I was playing against
a SEMI-skilled opp 4 handed, who was raising about 80%
of the time regardless of position (He was on my imm left).
This guy didn't realize that checking was an option.
Whenever I have 2nd pair he had top pair, whenever I
had A high, he had 4th pair (and bet it for value).

It was unreal.
Anyways, the game became 3 handed, and I instantly recognized that his strategy would be much tougher to counter.
Needless to say I still couldn't make a hand.

I am a much better HU and 3 handed player than 4-5 handed.

I won a few pots, the guy realized he was luckier than
dog [censored], and quit.

I think what I need to know is what I can get away with
folding preflop and postflop in these multi-aggressive
game, so that I do not fluctuate as much.

I find it much harder to read players with so much raising
in multiway pots.

[Ikke]

When you have multiple hyperaggressive players in your game, you shouldnt be too concerned about getting blinded off. Your big hands should extract way more value than they normally do, so tightening up shouldnt harm you. Also, see that your other opponents counter the profitability of attacking your blinds; essentially they do the work for you by calling/raising the hyperaggressive player. So attacking your blind isnt immediate +EV for that particular player. So no worries there.

Be aware though that big swings are part of these games. Far more than in a normal game, because you often have to rely on making a strong hand and win a big pot, while in a normal shorthanded game you can compensate lost hands by stealing your share.

Now, that takes us to preflop. It makes a BIG difference if you can isolate a hyperaggressive opponent or not. I've been in games where people are hyperaggressive but can fold, and where you are routinely facing a 4 way capped pot. IMO these two games require different preflop standards.
In the first game (where you can isolate your opponent) you can often play hands with good HU value aggressively, while in the second game you have more to think about. The first type of game probably doesnt give you much troubles, but the second one might do.

In a game where the majority of the players are hyperaggressive PLUS they are loose, you should change radically in your preflop standards (this is all my opinion ofcourse). Suited connectors go way way down in value, and can prove extremely costly. Pocket pairs go up in value, as well as big cards. Virtually ignore the drawing hands, though suitedness adds a lot of value to two highcards.

Postflop you should find ways to extract maximum value on the one hand and to let people fold OTOH, because the pot often gets extremely big. Also, there can arise many marginal situations where you should almost use overaggression to get players out (this because of the huge pots and the doubtful holding of a hyperaggressive opponent). That said I would never play in more than one of these games (and I never do play more than one table shorthanded BTW). There are just too many crucial situations when you DO play a hand, and when you arent totally focused a mistake can prove extremely costly.

A final note...if you want to cut down on your fluctuations you shouldnt play these games. IMO there are better games to find (for instance with one "maniac").

Regards

P.S. Normally I wouldnt lay down AJ when it's two bets to me in these games. But I wouldnt call either. 3-handed for a cap sounds fine to me against two maniacs ;-) (Watch out for being trapped though).

P.S. 2 Take as a general rule of thumb: Never fold the river for one bet. I've seen people do it, and then getting a heart attack (at least I can understand if they got one).

[J_V]

No way you win faster doing it with more caution. If you know the players, a good player can auto pilot his way to EV on all boards. Although, the games should be 5-6 handed. When you get really shorthanded, a lot of focus is needed.

I would play 5 full handed games online if I could. You can really auto pilot that and net some EV.