Slow Playing Yourself into a Coma

[waynethetrain]

Seeing monsters where there are none.

I decided not to raise the flop against one opponent because as long as he lead out, I figured I could raise him on the turn or river for a BB. Then a scare card came and I went into a temporary coma. Seems like I can't get through a whole session without leaving a bet on the table or making one silly river call.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

[jaxUp]

hmmm...that is a really crappy turn card. As for your plan on the flop, I would plan on raising the turn...give him a chance to put in lots of $$...plus he will still call a turn raise with a drawing hand (whereas he would fold the river). As you played it, you can probably raise the river in this hand and fold to a 3-bet.

[waynethetrain]

I agree. I should have raised the river bet.

[Talex]

I think I raise this flop, but after that I think you're ok. I think raising the turn lets hands that you beat get away but you're threebet by hands you're behind and forced to call because of your outs to the full house. Given calling the turn I might consider raising on the end and folding to a three bet.

-Tim

[Talex]

I don't like a turn raise. Hands you want to call (barring draws) get away. Draws call but then fold the end without improving whereas you might induce a bet on the river from a busted draw by just calling the turn. You want to showdown with your hand, but you don't want it to be expensive unless you fill up. What am I missing?

-Tim

[Isura]

One thing you are missing is that it is not correct to raise the river if you think villian will bet the river. A bluff will fold to a raise and a better hand is 3-betting. I think raising the turn is better. Many hands like two pair or draws are calling down anyways so I'd raise the turn. Call a 3-bet getting odds to the boat. I wouldn't raise the river.

[Talex]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing you are missing is that it is not correct to raise the river if you think villian will bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the turn raise line is better basically because there are more hands on the come that are willing to call, than hands on the river willing to bluff after calling the turn? Also, those two pair hands that are calling the turn are less likely to call the river? If three bet on the turn are we always folding to a bet on the river if we don't fill? We check it through if we aren't?

-Tim

[JoeBoo]

RAISE AND CAP THE FLOP, TURN, AND RIVER...if you lost this hand you deserved it, you can't slowplay these fish, they're like parranah's(sp).

[Shillx]

The best way to play hands like this is to mix up your raising strategy. Sometimes you pop the flop and other times the turn. You shouldn't be waiting until the river with a hand like this because you potentially lose out on too many bets if the villian has a worthy hand. I will usually raise the flop here but sometimes wait until the turn (but if you call the flop you need to raise the turn dude!) Even in this hand you should raise the turn since you probably have the best hand and want to get more out of him should he have a /images/graemlins/club.gif or otherwise.

Brad

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
So the turn raise line is better basically because there are more hands on the come that are willing to call, than hands on the river willing to bluff after calling the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically yes. You have a chance to get 2 BB on the turn, and possible more on the river. If you call you'll get atmost 1 BB on the river from a hand that you beat, but you'll only get check-raised or 3-bet on the river from hands that beat you. Hope villian has a hand and gives action on the turn and river. But you have to give your opponent with a weaker hand a chance to give you action.



[ QUOTE ]
Also, those two pair hands that are calling the turn are less likely to call the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two pair usually will still call the river unless he's really tight and/or the board gets really scary. You if you raise he'll call the turn raise and call 1 more bet on the river given the pot odds he'll be getting by then.

[ QUOTE ]
If three bet on the turn are we always folding to a bet on the river if we don't fill?

[/ QUOTE ]

With straights and flushes very likely from a turn 3-better, a fold seems standard. If I have a read villian has shown over-aggressive tendencies, I probably still look him up on the river and take a note (he could still be pumping a smaller set or two pair hoping to fill up). But usually it's correct to fold the river UI against a turn 3-bet.

[Eder]

I try to cap every street here

[DeuceKicker]

I don't think raising the turn or (especially) the river is a good idea here.

The board now has a 3-flush and a 4-straight. What kind of second-best hands are going to give you action? Is two pair or a smaller set going to go crazy on this board? A made straight or weak flush is not folding.

This is about the worst top set flop you could want. Raise and cap the flop, and see what happens when this horrid turn card comes. If villain bets out or check-raises, I'd call it down.

Capping every street here is ludicrous


Edit: To justify a slow-play the pot needs to be large and the board needs to have potential for someone to draw to a decent second-best hand against you. Neither is the case here.