Three Hands... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

xwillience

04-08-2005, 02:20 PM

some background insight.... this table is very loose with about 40-50% of the players seeing the flop very little pre flop raising. no real read on the initial bettor

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero 3-bets, 5 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

lots of action up front and i want to get these guys alone..

Flop: (13.40 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif

perfect flop only the small str8 scares me and with all the action up front its unlikely

(4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Im worried right away when he bets into me thinkign two pair or a set or maybe an OESD.. leanign towards two pair because he didnt raise PF as a lot of LL players tend to do with even small PP and while 67 is possible i think its unlikely. when he 3-bets im almost positive im beat with two pair.

Turn: (12.70 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

hes still betting into us so its time to jsut call him down.. the pot is getting to be quite large now

River: (16.70 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

same thing.. calling in case he was over agressive with AJ or A10 and the pot is so big

Final Pot: 19.70 BB

results : he had A4o for top and bottom pair on the flop grrr
--------------------------------------------
same table a couple hands later BB is a HUGE sucker... hes the guy that raises PF with A6o UTG and pushes it the whole way no matter what just watched him do it and again with AK no pair no draw on a 4 flush board

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

--not a great hand but i know there will be enough players in the pot to make this call profitable..

Flop: (8 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (8 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

--i think this is a GREAT flop for me especially when the BB bets out. i raise to isolate knowing he doesnt have the 3 and im positive im ahead right now... so long as he doesnt pair up im okay.

Turn: (6 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

--here i read him for another bluff attempt willing to toss my hand if he 3-bets but he just calls

River: (10 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

i think is where i make a mistake.. a minor one but a mistake none the less- should have checked it thru or maybe
this is a good value bet... im not really sure what i was thinkign to be honest so i cant explain myself..

Final Pot: 12 BB

nice sized head up pot

results: BB shows Q6o for a spiked boat.. while i loose the pot i dont think this hand is a total loss.. my initial read was right and i think i made the right play according to my read but i think him betting out on the turn in retrospect is something to be concerned about after i raised him ont he flop...
-------------------------------------------
hand 3

now this one is interesting because because its just a messed up hand... same table as previous two hands

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, MP1 raises, 2 folds, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

--getting 7:1 on a flush draw.

Flop: (8.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, CO folds, Button 3-bets, Hero calls, MP1 caps, Button calls, Hero calls.

-- this is where it starts to get hairy... i flop an OESD and a flush draw.. good flop yes but the action really scares me.. i probably could have dropped this hand here but im putting MP1 on an over pair to have capped it and button im not really sure yet maybe the str8

Turn: (10.20 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

--mp1 check scares me after all that cap action.. im afraid of both the check raise and his possible flush draw Ak or AQ... so im thinking about if my flush draw is even good also the 9 gives the board my same OESD i think if the board hits the str8 well all split the pot and walk away even at least.. im half way between ditching it and stickign around because if i hit the flush and its good i know it will be a monster pot. then that damn buzzer goes off and breaks my concentration and i call... luckily he called right after me..

River: (13.20 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

i bet out representing the flush and get raised... GREAT! at this point i think i rather would have folded PF.... i call it down with a huge pot and a decent flush 90% sure im beat here tho.... not really afraid of the boat wishing i had 97hearts tho

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

results : MP1 AKh for the Ace high flush im slightly frustrated that he capped the flop even more frustrated i called , Button had KJ off for top pair with a gutshot str8 ... i was almost drawing dead on the turn

comments and criticism are welcome just make em useful

Aaron W.

04-08-2005, 02:58 PM

Hand 1: Looks fine.

Hand 2: Give up on the turn. You could be chasing a medium pocket pair or a turned boat. If you read him on a bluff, just call it down! What do you gain by raising the turn?

Hand 3: Don't bet that flop. The PFR is in a bad position relative to you. Check-raise is a better option.

In general, it seems like you're not very systematic in your thought process. Your reads seem too narrow (putting villain on a continuation bluff on the turn in hand 2 and adding hands on the turn in hand 3). Hang around the boards here a while, post responses to other hands, read some books (WLLH, SSH), and you'll start to get the hang of it.

Dave G.

04-08-2005, 03:13 PM

Hand 1
Cap the flop. Without a read, he could have a wide range of hands here. It's rare for someone to flop a set or two pair, so a 3-bet doesn't necessarily mean either. If he bets into you on the turn after you cap, you can think about slowing down.

Hand 2
Flop raise good. If you are 3-bet, check / fold the turn UI. The turn raise is marginal but it did get you a free showdown on the river. Take the free showdown on the river. The river bet isn't good. This isn't a value bet because you have no way of knowing if you're good here. He's not folding so check behind and hope for the best.

Hand 3
Folding this flop would be the absolute worst thing you could do. This is a dream flop for you. If you aren't going to play this flop, why even call preflop in the first place?

Checkraise the flop. MP1 will likely bet the flop and you can use this to your advantage by trapping everyone for an extra bet. You have a big pot equity edge with an OESD and a flush draw, and lots of callers. Even with just a flush draw you want as many bets into this flop as possible (while keeping as many people in the pot as possible).

The turn is fine. Don't even think of folding here. The pot is huge and you have a flush draw.

The river is good. You aren't representing the flush; you have a flush. /images/graemlins/wink.gif I'd consider 3-betting this river actually, your flush will be good the majority of the time here, but I like to push my flushes hard.

Just as a future note though, you might want to post one hand at a time and not include results with the post. You'll probably get more responses that way.

k000k

04-08-2005, 03:24 PM

Before I read results or other's opinions:

H1: I'd cap the flop. You have position, and this is the cheapest place to put in some aggression and see how he reacts. A flop 3bet could be a test to you, dont fear the wheel straight. 2pair, you have outs to beat him. Set? So be it... OESD (which I doubt)? Make him pay. If he checks the turn, I lead turn and riv, and calldown to any bet/raise.

H2: The preflop call is perfectly acceptable, you sound like you're trying to defend a mediocre action, and it's not. Um.. What are you raising this flop for?? 8 players in there, and PP or 3 beats you, and you're drawing to a 6 outer, only your ace outs are strong, the 9's, well hope overcards dont show up.. Same for the turn. You have odds to call it down, do that instead.

H3: Fold that PF... You have 2 suited rags, you NEED a flush or a 2pair, you are getting ~5:1, chuck that one.. Flop, well you're in, got the draw. Flop and turn are fine, if BB is a sucker, I 3bet that river.

k000k

04-08-2005, 04:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
H2: The preflop call is perfectly acceptable, you sound like you're trying to defend a mediocre action, and it's not. Um.. What are you raising this flop for?? 8 players in there, and PP or 3 beats you, and you're drawing to a 6 outer, only your ace outs are strong, the 9's, well hope overcards dont show up.. Same for the turn. You have odds to call it down, do that instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking about this one... Isolation raise. The thing is, it doesn't seem so clear to me, with that many players in, 1: you can't really give them incorrect odds to call, it's still early and implied odds are thru the roof. 2: There's a pocket pair out there about 35% of the time, and the last 3 is in 14 of 47 unknown cards 30% of the time, so you AREN'T beat .7*.65= 46% of the time, just cuz the pure volume of players still in! Too many ppl saw the flop, I dont like being in this hand.. If EP is betting cuz he is beating you, he's gonna check-raise the turn, then what.. You'll be getting a gazillion:1 to call down an 8:1 draw. It feels like you're letting yourself get sucked in to a bad situation. You're going to end up with odds later to KEEP calling. I'd prefer to see some cheap cards and fill, or catch the last 3 on the board.

OTOH, the 1/2 the time you ARE ahead with your ace high, I'm not expecting TT-KK or a bigger ace, so you pretty much get all 6 outs. Albeit still drawing slim, and one of these fools is bound to fill..

I'd appreciate some more opinions on this one,