How much would you be willing to pay if you were a newbie?

[Joe Tall]

You are a learning player and have the opportunity to attend a poker seminar by a local poker pro. This will include a 45 minute presentation of the basics and 15 mins of Q&A.

Topics:
Hand selection, position, preflop play, flop play, odds and outs, etc.

Thanks everyone,
Joe Tall

[b0000000000m]

I choose less than $20 if the question is how much would I pay if I were a newbie.

If it's how much should you charge, I don't know.

[prairieboy]

This depends entirely on the name and reputation of the "local pro". If it's the smelly guy from seat #2, I'm willing to invest considerably less than if it's Mason M.
(extreme example, but you get the point).

From a pure marketing standpoint, for an unknown pro with good hygiene, I'd go higher than you have listed here. Funny thing about seminars, the more you charge, the more people think it's worth. Go for $100-150 and see what response you get.

[MarkL444]

$25 sounds like a good number

[Dave Mac]

Make it 2 hours, 30 min of Q+A, and charge like $150 and i think you might sell out,
dave

[TylerD]

$150? A complete newbie? No way.

I think $25 would be about right for an hour and $50 should you choose to do 2.

[johnfromvirginia]

I would make it pretty cheap and then offer the takers a more in depth course for significantly more money. If your intro course is any good, I think you'll probably be able to hook a lot of them for a lot of coin on a 2 to 4 hour course. My brother and I have talked about this a lot.

[Dilbert]

How much can you teach a newbie in an hour?

How much will they retain?

Poor investment for them, IMO. Would be much better for helping intermediate players, but they should demand one on one advice.

[SCfuji]

joe

you could easily get the max here especially if the people that sign up know you via 2 or maybe 3 degrees of separation.

[dogmeat]

Joe, I've done some teaching of blackjack and gambling in general, and you need to charge more than $25 for several reasons (psychological as well as covering costs like the room you are renting, advertising, etc.)

Two things you should also do:

1) Have some type of a hand-out. I used a loose-leaf binder with highlights, rules, etc., plus pre-printed sheets for the new players to keep track of their wins and losses. Make sure you include a phone number, or at least an email address - I made more from later calls that turned into personal instruction than from the seminars.

2) Have poker books available to sell (don't have to be yours, just what you think is relevant). You should be able to make at least 40% on those, and they can sell very well if you push them a little during your lecture.

Good Luck.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Dave Mac]

I think a complete newbie is not the best audence, an almost complete newbie is perfect. You need to hit those that understand the game to some level but not completely and realize the work they need to put in. They will pay more and come more often, and could lead to coaching of joe is interested in that .
Dave

[DrCool]

I have taught a few different seminars (totally non-gambling related) and here are a couple things I have found:

1. If you are known people will pay a lot to hear you talk. For some of our seminars we have purposely hooked up with someone who has a big name in our industry just to give us more credibility and allow us to charge more. The name doesn't mean that person knows more, it just means more people know him. Think of it like this: Would anyone buy the Harold Wilson Grill vs. the George Forman Grill? The bigger your name the more you can charge

2. Percieved value is as important (or more important) as acutal value. The more "stuff" you can give them (books, handouts, odds charts, take everything you will teach and put it on a CD, give them an audio version of the course, etc) the more you can charge. An hour is too short. You could do a 3-4 hr. seminar followed by an hour of live play (using play money) where you give advice as the hand is played. Follow that with a couple hours of real money play.

3. Total newbies are gonna be worthless. You want to target the guy who has played a couple times and is just getting hooked and wants to get better. They will see the value in your teaching more than a complete beginner who has never played before. Also total newbies usually have unrealistic expectations. They will expect to sit down at a 3-6 game and win every time since they know how to play now. The guy who has played a couple times should realize that nobody wins all the time and you will win and lose but they just want to maximize the wins and minimize the losses.

4. Scaricty will increase the price. You could charge $25 and get 100 people or you could charge $250 and only get 10 people. If you limit the number of attendees you can raise the price.

Those are just some basic things I have learned from the seminars I have been involved in. Don't know if they will apply to you but if done right I think you could potentially charge at least $100 or so.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
This depends entirely on the name and reputation of the "local pro". If it's the smelly guy from seat #2, I'm willing to invest considerably less than if it's Mason M.
(extreme example, but you get the point).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's that extreme an example. Many 'pros', and I use that term loosely, that I yap with have holes all over in their games. If I'm going to spend any money listening to someone talk about cards, the more I pay, the more I better respect his game and be likely to get something out of his lecture.

I think Ed M once said most of the 'pros' he met in vegas have only 'passable' games. I'd hate to spend any money listening to them. Which actually brings up one of my goals. Which is not to be lumped into that category.

[ QUOTE ]
From a pure marketing standpoint, for an unknown pro with good hygiene, I'd go higher than you have listed here

[/ QUOTE ]

Good hygiene? hahahaha.
Actually, you should be able to look past a slick marketing ploy, shouldn't you?

b

[bernie]

It's a newbie. $20. They'll be lucky to retain even 1/4 of what you may tell them as they will be in mental overload with the information.

But that's also looking at it from a less for profit more to actually help the beginner side. Profit side? Im not really sure. I don't know the demand, nor the range of price, nor the reaction to the event for it as I've yet to see anyone do it locally.

b

[chesspain]

Is lunch included?

[tech]

I think you are *severely* underestimating the price point of your target market, unless you are going after college kids exclusively. I know complete newbies who paid 4K for a poker seminar in Vegas (and to be honest probably didn't learn as much as they would have from you). Also people tend to perceive that more expensive things are of higher quality, regardless of whether it is true.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Is lunch included?

[/ QUOTE ]

It will be at a venue where they could order lunch. Not included in the price.

[scrub]

The last two times I've gone anywhere to hang out with you have cost me about 2 dimes, a pair of sunglasses, and a pretty nasty hangover...

scrub

[Joe Tall]

Total newbies are gonna be worthless.

They won't be "total" newbies. Players that will be playing in a local charity tournament is the target audience.

[Wozza]

I've attended a few seminars on software applications that my company paid for and they were pretty much a waste of time as they had to be geared to the lowest common denominator.

I'd be willing to bet that there'd be someone there asking 'Sorry...which ones are the clubs again?'

Being a complete newbie myself, I'd hesitate paying anything at this stage. Everything that I'd learn in an hour in a group session from a decent player I could learn from these forums and I'd be better off spending the dollars on a decent book.

But if the question was raised because you are considering offering such a service - good luck...

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
The last two times I've gone anywhere to hang out with you have cost me about 2 dimes, a pair of sunglasses, and a pretty nasty hangover...


[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure about the sunglasses but the rest of it sounds right. I'll be in SF in May, so you have plenty of time detoxify your liver and get ready.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jakethebake]

I'm not sure what I'd pay, probably not $20, but that doesn't mean plenty of fish won't spend wall over $40. I could go buy HOH or SSH for $20. I could also buy one of these...

http://www.chipsandgames.com/ProductImages/misc/805-E.jpg

https://secure.cardplayer.com/shop/images/philhellmuthpokersystem.jpg

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The last two times I've gone anywhere to hang out with you have cost me about 2 dimes, a pair of sunglasses, and a pretty nasty hangover...


[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure about the sunglasses but the rest of it sounds right. I'll be in SF in May, so you have plenty of time detoxify your liver and get ready.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I've pretty much narrowed down losing them to the Fairway Club.../images/graemlins/smile.gif

Glad to hear you're on your way back out here--I'm looking forward to it.

scrub

[James282]

Make sure you specify that it's limit hold 'em.
-James

[Blarg]

Less than $20, if the basics are really basic.
Spending money for that kind of thing is not appropriate until you're past the total newbie phase.

Figure the Q&A time as worthless, because usually good questions are overwhelmed by stupid and worthless ones, and anyway having random questions answered is no help; what matters is that YOUR questions get answered. Also, 15 minutes of Q&A is incredibly short, so you may never actually get your question in, or if you do, have no time to develop it and answer other questions it naturally brings up. So you're talking 45 minutes of content.

I'd like to see an outline before considering attending, much less playing. If much of the time will be spent explaining really basic stuff that I could get by 10 or 20 minutes of flipping through a book and wandering around watching the tables, I wouldn't be interested. Sorry, I'm a hard-ass and find most introductory presentations on any thing to be total crap and mostly about creating a "feel good" vibe.

I'm thinking five bucks, if not free. Add in material like preflop hand selection charts, odds charts, and high quality written discussion of things like pot odds versus drawing odds, maybe even implied odds, and then you're providing some real value. But anything complex that is just discussed without paper back up might well be quickly forgotten, and if it isn't immediately understood(as math often isn't), you won't even know it enough to forget it in the first place.

I know others are different than I am. If I'm interested in a subject, I like to really study it, so I'd be comparing what you might have to say versus how much I would spend to have a great resource like a 2+2 book to explore things in depth and refer to again and again. Unless you provide very detailed personal one one one interaction and good materials, I'd much rather spend my money on a 2+2 book. In short, for me, you'd have to really deliver extremely solid value, not hand holding or fluff or a mere lecture. Your average doofus would probably be content with an awful lot less, and I can't claim to speak for all of them. After all, lots of people believe you can beat roulette. For them, I'd say $25 bucks or so would probably make them feel like born ass kickers, and they'd pay you for that privilege.

[GrunchCan]

Maybe you could charge $50, and included in the price was a 2+2 book, like maybe SSH.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Make sure you specify that it's limit hold 'em.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

It's going to be more of a general play, for players new to the game. They know how to play, have played a few times but have not studied proper play. A non-beginner, is the term I think.

However, if the first one runs well, this will likely expand to more specific topics like casino limit hold'em play.

[gamblore99]

Hey Joe, If you are doing this, some things to consider about your poll.

1. The options you give are very leading and frame the question a lot. The order you give them, lowest to highest makes it more likely to get lower numbers. All the options also lead a person to pick in that range. If you did something like 150, 100, 80, 40, 20, you might end up with something like 40 as the average.

Also, experts really have trouble seeing the perspective of a newbie, so they probably have poor judgement of what a newbie would be willing to pay.

best of luck with it.

[[censored]]

When I first started, at which time I was eating up all the information I could get my hands on, I would for sure have paid $40.

[mybutthurts]

QUESTION?
why would they pey to listen to you,do you have a name for yourself? are you known?
if so of course they will pay.
if not, well.....

[BottlesOf]

Known to those in the know.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
QUESTION?
why would they pey to listen to you,do you have a name for yourself? are you known?
if so of course they will pay.
if not, well.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Check the 3rd or 4th page of 'The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Texas Hold'em' (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592573258/qid=1113407538/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-9665720-9811337?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) if you want to know my real last name.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall