Reasonable maneuver or dumb for tourney play?

[MoneyMoy]

I think I irked a few people with what I thought was a reasonable play in a $100+9 NL MTT on PS last night. I apologize for not knowing the exact details, but here was the gist of it (I'm writing what I think were the correct numbers, but I didnt get a hand history, so I may be off by a bit):

Final table, 8 players left, I'm around 3rd in chips with about 60k. Blinds are 1000-2000 with 100 ante and I'm in the BB with A4 suited, and the short stack with 7500 is on the button. Someone in middle position (32000 chips) comes in for a raise to 6k. Short stack pushes in. Only 5500 to call, but I prefer to squeeze out the initial raiser to take my shot with A4 suited heads up against the short stack, so I make it 32000 to go. Initial raiser folds, I lose the race, and then I get some sarcastic "nice play" comments as the short stack has now tripled up. I believe the difference between 8th place and 7th place money was only about $100. I was only thinking about trying to win the thing ($7150 for first place) and looking for spots to pick up chips and this looked like one to me. But maybe in that spot it's more important to leave the initial raiser in play so its two against one trying to knock out the short stack? I have a hard time seeing it that way, especially because if I just call, I leave myself vulnerable to moves by the initial raiser. Or was the correct play to fold and let the initial raiser take on the race alone? Although I can't see that being right either, holding A4 suited and only 5500 to call getting better than 3-to-1.

If anybody else was at that table last night and has the exact chip counts/bet size numbers, please feel free to correct me, but I think the question is still the same regardless- is it poor play or etiquette or whatever to squeeze out another player when the table is trying to knock out an all-in short stack so everybody gets guaranteed a higher finish?

[schwza]

don't sweat the etiquette question - if it'll help you, screw 'em. that said, i don't like the play b/c you're often 30% or worse equity against the short-stack and there's too good a chance that the PFR will wake up with a big one.

[MoneyMoy]

Yeah, I can see your point about it being a poor play just based on what I might actually be up against. I'll have to think some more about that. I appreciate the reply.

[yecul]

Go after the chips and play your game. That said, I agree that you should probably wait for stronger holdings for a play like this. What's the shorty going to push with? A big ace, any pair, or a couple big cards (KQ). At best you're a coin flip with him and if he shows AT or the like then you're a bigger dog.

[DVC Calif]

[ QUOTE ]
...Only 5500 to call, but I prefer to squeeze out the initial raiser to take my shot with A4 suited heads up against the short stack, so I make it 32000 to go. Initial raiser folds, I lose the race...

[/ QUOTE ]

I also wouldn't worry too much about the etiquette but would focus instead on your play.

You basically have Ace rag, albeit s00ted. If you are playing the Ace for value, you need to evaluate the range of hands your opponents could be have. With no kicker, you are esentially "racing" a 3-outer at best.

You should be looking to get lucky by either catching your flush or the wheel, in which case you want as many people in the pot as possible. You want the nuts to pay off more than just what is in the pot.

I would probably fold pf out of position with MP still to act. How would you have felt if the original raiser called your reraise? Risking half you stack on such a marginal hand is kinda laggy.

[A_PLUS]

The only think I dont like is the sequence.

1st: the opening player, could be on a steal, or he could have a huge hand. You really have no idea.

2nd. The SS called an all-in. If they are a decent player, that is much different from opening all-in. If that is me, and I have apx. 15 hands left. I am only calling off alll of my chips with a PP or ATs+. Especially with the raise coming from a position outside of the normal steal range.

If you reverse the players order, then I like the play. You can adjust the SS range down to any 2 broadway, any ace, Some suited Kings, and some SCs (if that player is me that is). And the other player would probably reraise with a premium hand in this spot.

[MoneyMoy]

Makes sense. I thought the initial raiser would fold almost anything rather than call all-in when I showed strength like that since he could just sit back and hope the short stack would bust out, but I see now that half my stack is probably an unecessarily large chunk of chips to be throwing around in this fashion. As for the all-in short stack, I really didn't mind racing him for only 5500 more, but yeah, in retrospect jeopardizing half my chips to manufacture the race situation looks terrible to me now. Hard to think it through like that in the heat of battle, but I'm trying... Thanks for the great replies!

[Komodo]

I dont like your play at all. Youre basically helping the short stack to triple up instead of double up if winning, and at the same time giving him better winning chances at the pott, since the other guy probably had better cards then you.
Either you should fold and let the other guy take care of the short stacked or just call and check check. I doubt he will make a move against you unless he hits a very strong or unbeatable hand.
A4 is simply to crappy for such plays.