Please advise, how's this play? I SUCK @ TITLES!!!!!!!

[ricochet420]

Just sat down, no reads on ne1. I thought about raising the turn card, but got a little scared of the flush (weak?)
Glad to see the river is a Q, ne1 just call? Is there such thing as a value raise? lol

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, Button folds.

River: (10.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Kc 5c (flush, king high).
UTG+1 has Ad Ac (two pair, aces and queens).
Hero has Qs Ks (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: BB wins 16.75 BB. </font>

[macdaddy991]

If you think the flush is out there, then you are spewing with the river raise. No flush is going to fold for one bet and you are just donating them chips. If you don't think the flush is out there, then raise the turn.

Since I cheated and looked at the results make a note on UTG1 that he never raised with aces, even preflop.

[Ianco15]

With no reads I think I just call here. BB betting into you on the turn screams flush. The river queen doesn't really help you unless you're opponent has an over pair.

Don't post results. It will skew the answers.


Ship__It.

[bigalt]

maybe he was going for the limp-reraise which hero foiled by not raising with his KQs

[Malachii]

How come you didn't raise this preflop? Gotta push that preflop equity edge.

I think I'd still raise the turn... if he 3 bet me I'd probably call down. I know he had the flush this particular time, but I think you're losing too much value if you just call the turn with top pair every time there's a possible flush out there.

PS: What the hell is wrong with UTG+1?

[Shillx]

You played this hand really poorly. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

1) Raise preflop dude! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

2) His flop bet and turn bet could mean that he has a flush but it could also mean that he just has a queen and doesn't want you to take a free card. If you are going to raise...now is the time to do it. You have UTG+1 calling and you have the button still to act who could potentially be drawing against you. I like a raise on the turn to maximize EV against anyone who is drawing. If you get 3-bet, you sigh and fold.

3) The river didn't help your hand enough to raise. If you decided to call this down that is fine, but raising the river after you call the turn is bad poker. Anyone who was drawing against you will now not pay off the raise and if the BB has a flush you are still losing. So what I'm saying is this...if you think your hand is good on the river when you make 3 queens, you should think that your hand is good on the turn when you just have a pair (plus you can charge drawers). If you felt you were behind on the turn but decided to calldown because of the pot odds, then you should call on the river because you are still behind someone with a hand like Q4/Q8/flush. The only hands that you overtake (something like 83) will fold to the river raise so it has no value what so ever.

Brad

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
If you get 3-bet, you sight and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Maybe I've been playing this situation wrong.

[Elbie]

You're play is not consistant. If you fear a flush on the turn the river Q didn't help you. Either raise the turn ( if you think that BB is full of it) or (and I think that this is the line that I would have chosen)call the turn, call the river.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you get 3-bet, you sight and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Maybe I've been playing this situation wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would. Putting 4 BB into this pot with just a pair and no redraw to the flush seems pretty silly. The only time I would consider calling down a 3-bet is if the 3-bettor is really aggressive and might be trying to move me off a hand. Against a passive player it is a turbo muck and against an average player it is something between a turbo muck an a fast muck. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Brad

[FreakDaddy]

Raise pre-flop. Flop raise is good. Raise the turn. If you're afraid of flush then why'd you bet the river? /images/graemlins/smile.gif River is fine though. Yet it would have been better to know if you were behind on the turn.

Just peeked at the results. You lost the hand because you didn't raise pre-flop. Although at party for one bet a lot of people still play these lame cards OOP. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ricochet420]

Not sure why I didn't raise PF, the only thing I can think of is position. I know I botched the river play, but is this a PFR always?

[Rev. Good Will]

limping KQs?!?! Haha, i got flamed for doing that one time, i found out later that doing so is a serious error.

Other than that, why raise river if you fear the flush on the turn? trip Q's won't beat the possible flush. either raise on turn to get info on what BB is holding, or just calldown the rest of the way.

[Elbie]

Yes I would raise KQs 100% of the time

[ricochet420]

Trying to figure that one out? Must have been a brain fart, trying to remember the logic, and there doesn't seem to be ne![ QUOTE ]


Other than that, why raise river if you fear the flush on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
You played this hand really poorly. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

1) Raise preflop dude! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

2) His flop bet and turn bet could mean that he has a flush but it could also mean that he just has a queen and doesn't want you to take a free card. If you are going to raise...now is the time to do it. You have UTG+1 calling and you have the button still to act who could potentially be drawing against you. I like a raise on the turn to maximize EV against anyone who is drawing. If you get 3-bet, you sigh and fold.

3) The river didn't help your hand enough to raise. If you decided to call this down that is fine, but raising the river after you call the turn is bad poker. Anyone who was drawing against you will now not pay off the raise and if the BB has a flush you are still losing. So what I'm saying is this...if you think your hand is good on the river when you make 3 queens, you should think that your hand is good on the turn when you just have a pair (plus you can charge drawers). If you felt you were behind on the turn but decided to calldown because of the pot odds, then you should call on the river because you are still behind someone with a hand like Q4/Q8/flush. The only hands that you overtake (something like 83) will fold to the river raise so it has no value what so ever.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said. So many times I think about posting, then read Shills response and say yup, that's it.

Think of it this way: If you raise the turn and BB does not have the flush, how often will the average player 3-bet? Or will he be afraid you have the flush? Of course a read helps...

[ricochet420]

Thanks, will do.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes I would raise KQs 100% of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

[CourtesyFlush]

great avatar /images/graemlins/smile.gif