22$ Pushing with K3

[Freudian]

Blinds would hit me in two hands, and then they would be 100/200. Is this hand too weak to push here? If not, how low can I go?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t2070)
Hero (t505)
MP2 (t2010)
CO (t350)
Button (t1040)
SB (t655)
BB (t760)
UTG (t610)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t505 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls t405.

Flop: (t1060) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t1060) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t1060) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1060

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Ad Qd (one pair, kings).
Hero has Kd 3d (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins t1060. </font>

[zac777]

Nice flop, but posting the results doesn't help to answer your question..

I think K3s is too weak here. You have 5 people left to act, so you don't pick up the blinds often enough. When you do get called, you are far behind, even to low pairs. I would fold and wait for a better spot, even if it means getting hit with the blinds. If you are in late position, it's a totally different story.

[spentrent]

EDIT: I misread the blinds. I only stand by my advice if we're very close to the end of this level.

EDIT AGAIN: My god I've been up too long. "Blinds will hit in 2 hands." PUSH PUSH PUSH! You're screwed anyway so I think your best shot is to take advantage of the modicum of FE you have right now.

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[ QUOTE ]
even if it means getting hit with the blinds. If you are in late position, it's a totally different story.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's got 500 chips and the blinds are 100/200. Is it really worth hanging around for a better hand at this point?

This seems like a great time for a desperation move that is guaranteed a call from the BB where he's probably on a coin flip. When the going gets tough, the tough play bingo.

[TheHardAss]

pretty standard fold to me. so many hands that are miles ahead could call easily.. sure you got lucky, but do you want to run vs AQ? i don't...

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
pretty standard fold to me. so many hands that are miles ahead could call easily.. sure you got lucky, but do you want to run vs AQ? i don't...

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed my post. I misread the blinds.

Though now that I am thinking more about it, I'm doubting that his stack after the blinds hit will have any fold equity anyway. 350 chips with 50/100 blinds is still brutal.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
pretty standard fold to me. so many hands that are miles ahead could call easily.. sure you got lucky, but do you want to run vs AQ? i don't...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that all the hands that are ahead could call "easily." I'm still counting on 77+|AT+ calling and everything else folding.

[TheHardAss]

[ QUOTE ]
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pretty standard fold to me. so many hands that are miles ahead could call easily.. sure you got lucky, but do you want to run vs AQ? i don't...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that all the hands that are ahead could call "easily." I'm still counting on 77+|AT+ calling and everything else folding.

[/ QUOTE ] I can see KQ, KJ, low-mid pockets, and Axs calling too... which is no fun. i think better spots than K3, plus, BB might wake up with K7s and call ya...

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
I can see KQ, KJ, low-mid pockets, and Axs calling too... which is no fun. i think better spots than K3, plus, BB might wake up with K7s and call ya...

[/ QUOTE ]

You think he'll have a better spot in the NEXT TWO HANDS? After that he's DONE.

(BTW the chance of someone else having a king is reduced by the fact that we have one. Not that it matters.)

[squire]

i like pushing here, if you do get called its likely by A-10+ or pp, if its the former at least you have 2 live cards.
yes you could fold and pick up something in the next two but its unlikely and then you have even more people to act after you.
push and pray.
squire.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
I can see KQ, KJ, low-mid pockets, and Axs calling too... which is no fun. i think better spots than K3, plus, BB might wake up with K7s and call ya...

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I can see better hands calling. I fully expect to be the dog when called (which is going to be pretty often).

But in two hands I have to push/call any two and have pretty much no folding equity left.

[Raiser]

Push. You have to add some chips before the blinds get to you and your hand is suited /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[syka16]

[ QUOTE ]
Blinds would hit me in two hands, and then they would be 100/200. Is this hand too weak to push here? If not, how low can I go?



[/ QUOTE ]

Push or blind out.... hummmm. be a 3:1 dog or blind out...

[spentrent]

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[ QUOTE ]
Blinds would hit me in two hands, and then they would be 100/200. Is this hand too weak to push here? If not, how low can I go?



[/ QUOTE ]

Push or blind out.... hummmm. be a 3:1 dog or blind out...

[/ QUOTE ]

Teach me how to acquire ESP so that I know I'm a 3 to 1 dog before I steal.

[syka16]

download poker stove. Imput your hand... imput # of players behind. Imput their calling ranges... click enter

[jcm4ccc]

I don't like pushing here at all. Let's say you push and all five players left to act fold. Now you have 655 chips. Still barely more than 3X BB (when the blinds go up). So you've made a big risk for small gain, and you're still in desperation mode.

Stealing these blinds probably won't buy you even one more orbit (you will have only 355 chips if you steal and then fold the BB and SB). You need to double up and K3s is a poor hand to try to double up with. I would take my chances on getting a better hand in the next two deals.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
download poker stove. Imput your hand... imput # of players behind. Imput their calling ranges... click enter

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is that OP is caught between a rock and hard place. He's gonna have to get lucky no matter what he does, and that INCLUDES being called by better hands now or blinding away in two hands.

Next time just cut and paste the stove results before baiting morons like me with a number that comes with zero explanation.

That way I can at least see what range you're assuming without having to ask you right now.

[swarm]

I love the push here actually, you have just enough chips compared to the reamaining players to act stacks to make them hesitant in calling. Would love it more with a suited connector in the 79, 810, range. People will pass up mediocre holdings that would dominate you such as K10, KJ sometimes because they fear the blinds waking up with a hand because they know the blinds are shortstacked and calling with anything decent.

You push hoping to get medicore hands like A3off etc and K9 in the middle position out of the hand. So many times people will pass up a hand that had you dominated but is not good enough to call when there is people still to act after them. Your hope is that the blinds are left to call but only have trash to defend.

Wasn't the case this time as the blinds actually had a hand and you sucked out. It would be interesting to see what the mp's, co and button folded though. Most of the time you are going to get called and be in bad shape but at least you gave yourself a chance to win.

Fold however and you are going to have to call a push with almost any two reasonable cards on the next hand and you are going to need a much better hand than k3s to have a good shot.

[syka16]

so with 2 hands... that's pushing top 50% right? sounds like K3s.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
so with 2 hands... that's pushing top 50% right? sounds like K3s.

[/ QUOTE ]

K3s against typical calling hands wins about 36% of the time. I'll take my chances on something better coming around.

[syka16]

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so with 2 hands... that's pushing top 50% right? sounds like K3s.

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K3s against typical calling hands wins about 36% of the time. I'll take my chances on something better coming around.

[/ QUOTE ]

And when you're UTG with a different top 50% all you did was add callers.

[Freudian]

I don't think pushing here is worse than waiting and hoping to catch a better hand the next two hands.

When I went through the HH I probably should have pushed two hands before this one though. I can't remember why I folded, there was something about that limper that made me fold this one.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t2070)
Hero (t505)
Button (t2010)
SB (t400)
BB (t740)
UTG (t755)
UTG+1 (t610)
MP1 (t910)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t100, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB checks.

[syka16]

I'd probably fold A5s and wait for an opportunity to open raise

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably fold A5s and wait for an opportunity to open raise

[/ QUOTE ] I agree. I'd rather push K3s with no limpers than A5s with one limper (and I don't like pushing the K3s). Too great a chance that you are dominated by the limper.

[spentrent]

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I'd probably fold A5s and wait for an opportunity to open raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'd rather push K3s with no limpers than A5s with one limper (and I don't like pushing the K3s). Too great a chance that you are dominated by the limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lately I've been pushing in this scenario. I'm not calling my play absolutely correct, but it's been successful for the past few weeks. I figure that

1) An open-limper in MP isn't as scary as one in EP.

2) There are a ton of hands he could limp with, and it's less likely that he has an A since I have one.

3) He'll read strength from my push and fold many of the coin flip hands that he most likely limped with.

Basically, I think the typical $20+2 player's open-limping range in MP with a ~10BB stack includes a lot of hands that don't want to call a raise.

If I'm the button, I might do it with any two as long as no one called between us.