JJ postflop play

[Scuba Chuck]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1575)
UTG+1 (t495)
MP1 (t1035)
MP2 (t2115)
CO (t605)
Button (t755)
SB (t700)
BB (t720)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls t100, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (t275) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (t275) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t505 (All-In)</font>, Hero ......calls t405.

<font color="blue"> Any thoughts? </font>

[gumpzilla]

1) Why minraise PF?

2) The turn bet seems kind of weak. Add in the minraise PF and I'd expect people to blast over the top of it with less than great hands somewhat more frequently than they might otherwise. So, given that action, I like the call. Perhaps you'll be shown 99 or AQ, but I think you've shown enough weakness throughout this hand that you'll be ahead here enough to make the slightly better than 2:1 you're getting seem pretty palatable. What level is this at?

EDIT: I probably would have bet the flop, by the way.

[kyro]

I like postflop. I hate preflop. Either raise more or limp. Raise all in if you get a chance.

[Maulik]

The play here is very weak, you need to be aggressive or limp. A doubling of the blinds isn't going to get a hand like q9 or maybe q8 to fold if the players will play such hands by limping themselves.

[Unparagoned]

Ok...hmmm, let's see.
1) Why min-raise JJ preflop? Are you min-raising all the time (and if so why)? I don't really understand why you would min-raise JJ with a pretty healthy stack, I would raise to 150 preflop, just like I would with any other hand I wanted to raise.

2) Why didn't you bet this flop?
A) You think you are behind and thus check.
B) You think you are ahead and don't think your opponent will play if you bet.
I don't like (A) and I might be willing to listen to (B). I like betting this flop. I want to bet about 150 after the flop, weak enough to make him think he might be able to come over the top successfully. I'm assuming you had no intention of laying down, so the question is simply how to get most of the money in the pot. This depends on your read of the player I suppose, so I will not presume to offer a solution without the necessary knowledge. I'll just say that my default is that 150-200 chip bet.

[spentrent]

Does a preflop minraise caller deserve the "betting impetus" or does it belong to you?

BTW I'm not making a statement by asking a question... just encouraging discussion.

[curtains]

1. Not a huge fan of min raising preflop
2. I HATE checking the flop
3. Of course you should bet the turn
4. When he raises I dunno what to do! Usually I fold, but I mean when you bet so weakly the entire hand, you are going to get much more unreliable information.

[Nottom]

Random thought:

I hate min raising, but sometimes a minraise is a good alternative to other choices, but since I hate minraising I would usually make it 125 here as a pseudo-minraise.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
a pseudo-minraise.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is there less flaming with a pseudo-minraise?

You know, I'm getting frustrated with opinions on this forum. What's the line between TT and JJ. TT is a limping hand, but JJ is a 3xBB leadout bet UTG? TT is played for set value, but JJ is a monster. Is this a dilemma, or am I over-reacting?

I agree I could/should have bet more preflop, purely from the size of my stack. Had I bet this amount with a 900 stack, and lost this hand, I'm sure I would have been told that I raised too much. (Although I do now like the pseudo-minraise). Obviously, this is headsup, so my hand carries more strength. I assume a check-call-bet will give me info. But more importantly, doesn't a check-check tell me a lot? Especially when an undercard comes on the turn?

Scuba
who hopes to be a better JJ player soon

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
You know, I'm getting frustrated with opinions on this forum. What's the line between TT and JJ. TT is a limping hand, but JJ is a 3xBB leadout bet UTG? TT is played for set value, but JJ is a monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think of the hands that a typical PP idiot limps and then calls a decent to large raise with. The first general category that comes to mind is 'two Broadway'.

See how JJ and TT look really different now?

[curtains]

Scuba you should generally raise at least 2.5x the BB with all hands. You have to draw a line somewhere as to what hands to raise and which ones not to, and thus the most common line drawn is TT.

Note however that I would raise TT here (combination of big stack and 25-50 blinds, I almost never open limp in level 3), and raise it even in the 10-15 round if 3-4 players have folded to me.