Bad Beat or unneccesary risk?

[AceRat138]

Blinds at 15-30. I have 1050 chips.
1st position. I get delt A /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I raise 90.
4 callers. Flop comes 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif
Pot is 375. I bet 375. Two callers.
Turn comes A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Pot is 1500 I push with remaining 585 chips.
One caller with Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif
He hits 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif on the river and I bust out.

Now my question here is not whether the other guy played his hand right, because he obvouisly should have folded to my pre-flop bet. My question is whether I should play this hand or others (KK, QQ, AKs) this aggressivly this early on in the tournament when you know there are horrible players still around that have that suckout potential.

The pot sized bet on the flop should be enough to scare any flush draws out, so I figured the guy had two pair or a set and when I hit the set of aces I thought that the pot was mine. Any thoughts on this play? Should I bet half of the pot on the flop and then full pot on the turn and then push if another club doesn't come or should I play it like I did? Or should I get my chips in earlier?

[Conor]

Bad beat. Played it fine, maybe raise more preflop, but fine.
Flop bet is good. You have the nuts on the turn, and with draws out there, anything less than a push is foolish. Don't worry too much about it, he just sucked out on ya.

[yoadrians]

I wish I had some advice for you, but I think you played this hand fine. Your 3XBB raise pre-flop is OK, your pot bet on the flop is spot-on, and your push to the non-club ace on the turn is the way to go.

Sounds more like a bad-beat story to me, but if you were really looking for advice, you played this hand just fine and the dude sucked out on you.

Cards happen. And, apparently, so do idiots like the Villain in this hand. Don't worry - you'll take every last cent from him next time.

[U235]

[ QUOTE ]
Now my question here is not whether the other guy played his hand right, because he obvouisly should have folded to my pre-flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to answer a question that wasn't asked, but villain played the hand fine. QTs is a fine multi-way hand, and his gut shot plus flush gave him (Edit: 13) likely outs. He had the odds to call for every one of his actions.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now my question here is not whether the other guy played his hand right, because he obvouisly should have folded to my pre-flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to answer a question that wasn't asked, but villain played the hand fine. QTs is a fine multi-way hand, and his gut shot plus flush gave him (Edit: 13) likely outs. He had the odds to call for every one of his actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong.

yes, you played it right. stop whining. :-D

[Maulik]

bad beat, big deal.

your play was right on

[U235]

Please point out the -EV call (even given the fact that Hero has a set) and correct the error of my ways.

It is possible for two players to play the same hand right.

[TheHardAss]

[ QUOTE ]
Please point out the -EV call (even given the fact that Hero has a set) and correct the error of my ways.

It is possible for two players to play the same hand right.

[/ QUOTE ] He has 10 outs, not 13, for starters

[emonrad87]

[ QUOTE ]
Please point out the -EV call (even given the fact that Hero has a set) and correct the error of my ways.

It is possible for two players to play the same hand right.

[/ QUOTE ]



Villian's preflop call sucks. Even my n00b ass knows that.

[U235]

Yeah, I suck at counting. I meant to say 12 likely outs, but accidentally double-counted the Jack of Clubs. Even if he has only 10 outs given Hero's set though, it's still a plus EV play:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=882225
pokenum -h ad ah - qc tc -- ks 9c 5c as
Holdem Hi: 44 enumerated boards containing As Ks 9c 5c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Ah 34 77.27 10 22.73 0 0.00 0.773
Qc Tc 10 22.73 34 77.27 0 0.00 0.227

This is almost the worst case scenerio, and he is still getting enough (barely) to make this call. It's close, but not definitely wrong.

[colehard]

And on the flop he is nearly even money.

No doubt about the bad pf call though. I had someone at one of my tables tonight who said QTs was the winningest hand. Perhaps it was the same person.

[U235]

I liked the pre-flop call, as long as he was the 4th or 5th in, and knows enough to get away from the flop when necessary. If everyone else hates it this much though, I suppose I need to rethink.

At the very least, I don't think it was too wrong of a call.

[Benoit]

You didn't mention anything about who was in what position. If I had a suited connector I would call a raise if I was in late position or last to call and the chances of a re-raise was unlikely. For all I know QT was in the BB and only had to call 2xBB more, obviously these are good pot odds, not to mention the implied odds if he hit against you and you dump your money to him. Again I don't know position, so maybe he was second to call on the flop (not to mention he still had 12 outs), so he still had good pot odds to call.

Now I don't mean what you did was wrong since there is nothing wrong with encouraging action with AA... But then again a 5 way pot makes the odds to a suck out more likely. Besides that it was a semi-bad beat, how were you to know he had 12 then 10 outs on the turn. He was practically pot committed on the turn especially since he didn't know he was up against a set.

I could figure though, maybe a 3/2 the pot or 2x the pot bet would be better against a 5 way pot and a flush draw on the board. Consider the likelihood of someone holding a flush + straight draw more likely. A larger bet would be required to make it improper for them to call... Of course this bad beat would probably have still happened.

[AceRat138]

I like the idea of betting more on the flop with so many people to give incorrect calling odds for the flush.

As far as position goes, the villian that ended up winning the pot was the first person in after my pre-flop bet. In my oppinion the only position at the table where it might have been okay to call (remember it was only level 2 of the tourney 15-30 blinds) would have been the button. I think any other position, you would be a fool to call the preflop bet with this hand.