A couple quotations

[bholdr]

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He that would make his own liberty secure must gaurd even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.

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[ QUOTE ]
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves, and, under a just god, cannot long retain it.

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If i must choose between righteousness and peace, i choose righteuosness.

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bonus points for identifying the speaker(s). thoughts?






and a parting shot for all you trogs out there /images/graemlins/grin.gif...
[ QUOTE ]
what is conservativism? is it not the adherance to the old and tried against the new and untried?

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[jesusarenque]

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[bholdr]

was waiting for somebody to bust out some Ben F. nice one.

[zaxx19]

3rd one Roosevelt or Lincoln....

Damn, its so tempting to cheat let me think about these.

[bholdr]

a clue: one of he quotes is teddy R, one is lincoln...

[bholdr]

all of these quotes are from famous american historical politicians. They each, as well as the one that JA added, affirm my belief that the restriction or weakening of any of our constitutional rights in the name of fighting terror are terrible mistakes.

The first quote, provided by Thomas paine (that radical of radicals) i believe applies to our treatment of terror suspects and 'detainees' in iraq, and afganistan, and around the world.

The second quote, of course, is Lincoln. It was spoken in the context og the early 1860s, but i believe it still applies, most tellingly to the treatment of terror suspects that are american citizens. I think any steps towards restricting a person's rights to a speedy and public trial, habeus corpus, etc, will eventualy come back and bite us all in the ass, to put it bluntly. "Terrorist", as a label, could easily be expanded to include so many disparate american political groups that, if treated the same was as we treat islamic radicals, would provoke a full-blown constitutional crisis. I'm thinking about the anti-abortion radicals, the environmental radicals, the survivalists, the anarchists, etc, etc- extremists on both ends of the political spectrum, are, IMO, in danger of sneak-and-peek searches, deportation and offshore detainment, prison time without being charged with a crime, and so on and so forth.


The third quote was intended to tie the first two together, it is that hero of conservativism Teddy R. It is a restatement of patrick henry's famous "give me liberty or give me death" cry from the revolution. My point is:

If it is impossible to prevent terrorist attacks without comprimising the constitutional rights that make this country what it is, then we should not prevent them.

that doesn't sound vey encouraging, but democracy isn't only for the living generations, it's for those that will come after us, and we owe it to them to pass it on in it's purest form, without dilutions, as our fathers did for us. in short, REPEAL THE PATRIOT ACT, CHARGE THE AMERICANS IN GUANTANAMO WITH CRIMES OR LET THEM GO, STOP TORTURING PEOPLE OVERSEAS, and just basicly LIVE UP TO WHAT THE US IS ABOUT. EO 9066- NEVER FORGET

it may be unrealistic. we will see, i suppose.


oh, and the 4th quote is from a famous republican.

[ACPlayer]

Perhaps we need to reeducate the atty genl and the prez on what is liberty and freedom.

Ooops -- they are agenda driven and not educatable!